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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6031235" data-attributes="member: 6696971">@<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/members/cadence.html" target="_blank">Cadence</a>That's good to hear that you're considering giving it another shot.  If you take the agenda I outlined above and use the Skill Challenge mechanics as a non-combat resolution tool to frame closed scenes that play-to-archetype/genre, I think you might be pleased with the results.  When composing those Skill Challenges to resolve non-combat genre tropes consider this approach:- Your Skill Challenge should be attempting to resolve something that "matters" to your campaign.  It should be attempting to capture the spirit of the fiction embedded in a genre trope that you and your group appreciate (literary, theatre, cinema, comic books, etc).- When devising your Skill Challenge, what is absolutely paramount is that you have a strong list of "genre-logic-derived" fictional outcomes (complications/adversity) that arise from both passes and failures.  These outcomes need to lead to new and interesting decision-points (with multiple ways to attack the current adversity/complication and multiple possible complications then arising from those decisions) for the PCs.  They should urge them to engage with the fiction on the fiction's terms, using thematic logic embedded in their chosen archetype, and not just "use x skill."- Your passes and failures should map as much as possible to the Skill used to interface with the fiction but do not treat it as linear, coupled cause and effect, process simulation.  You're looking for outcomes that are genre-relevant...outcomes that aspire to those great tropes you're capturing.  Find ways to work backward from those outcomes and capture the Skill and the check in the resolution toward that outcome.- Whenever possible (which should be most of the time), use "fail-forward" techniques.  The PCs don't need to look like buffoons when they fail.  Further, a "fail-forward" approach broadens the scope of outcomes rather than narrows them.  You don't just fail a check and automatically look like a buffoon.  You fail and something interesting, fictionally dynamic that is external to your locus of control (but perhaps loosely related to the Skill leveraged) interposes itself between you and your goal.- Encourage your players to narrate results (mostly successes) now and again (but not the ultimate resolution results).  If a player's technique becomes clearly advanced and they have a deep creative reservoir (thus earning your trust), give them more rope.  Let them narrate failures. - Finally, as important as anything, this requires good communication and understanding of these aims by players and DM and practice, practice, practice.  It is not a bad idea to compose Skill Challenges together and practice them so you are used to the techniques required that allows this resolution mechanic to work with you to create genre-relevant, emergent fiction.  If everyone understands the hard-coded mechanics, the implicit inner workings and aims...and then practices their technique...chemistry will manifest and you guys will consistently be pleased with your results.  Beyond that, there is all kinds of good advice on these boards about how to leverage different 4e systems (condition track, swarm rules) to achieve all manner of D&D conventions (exploration attrition, mass combat).Best of luck to you.  I hope you find a fitting group.</blockquote>

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