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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Shard O'Glase" data-source="post: 361638" data-attributes="member: 1134">At the PH level I think damaging spells can compare with DC save or dies.  Saves go up quickly(attributes, items etc) so the % chance of success it usually somewhat slim.  Once you add in greater focus, and those power things the save DC gets beyond what poeple can legitimetly save against and then yes damage dealers are outclassed.Personally I like save or dies for that fear factor, and because it actually gives a point for will and fort saves.  Also if they were removed it would be a power loss for spell casters whether or not they could adapt loss in versatility is still a loss, and especially for the d4 arcane casters for whom virtually every attack upon them is you don't get a save you just die, some compensation should be in order if they were removed.</blockquote>