If I cut a doppelganger using changeshape, would it bleed doppelganger blood?

[dead]

This came up in the game the other night too.

The PCs wounded a disguised doppelganger (using its changeshape ability) and asked me what colour the blood was as they were suspicious. The doppelganger was disguised as a human. I said the blood was human blood.

Let's pretend doppelganger blood looks different, though. Perhaps it's black or milky white. Would the doppelganger using changeshape bleed this blood instead?

I understand if he was Polymorphed or Shapechanged (as per the spells) he would bleed the blood of the creature as the magic literally does change your form. I'm not sure if changeshape is more superficial appearance, however.

This also has me thinking regards the Alter Self spell. If you cut a character using this spell, would they bleed blood the colour of the creature they are impersonating or their own blood?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you!

 

[freyar]

Nice question! Here's what I think is the relevant text from the Change Shape ability in the SRD:

A creature using change shape reverts to its natural form when killed, but separated body parts retain their shape.

I'd rule that means that the blood, as a "separated body part," looks like the human blood, just like a severed arm would continue to look like a human arm.

 

[Jack Simth]

This came up in the game the other night too.

The PCs wounded a disguised doppelganger (using its changeshape ability) and asked me what colour the blood was as they were suspicious. The doppelganger was disguised as a human. I said the blood was human blood.

Let's pretend doppelganger blood looks different, though. Perhaps it's black or milky white. Would the doppelganger using changeshape bleed this blood instead?

I understand if he was Polymorphed or Shapechanged (as per the spells) he would bleed the blood of the creature as the magic literally does change your form. I'm not sure if changeshape is more superficial appearance, however.

This also has me thinking regards the Alter Self spell. If you cut a character using this spell, would they bleed blood the colour of the creature they are impersonating or their own blood?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you!

SRD quotes to the resuce!

Change Shape (Su): A creature with this special quality has the ability to assume the appearance of a specific creature or type of creature (usually a humanoid), but retains most of its own physical qualities. A true seeing spell or ability reveals the creature’s natural form. A creature using change shape reverts to its natural form when killed, but separated body parts retain their shape. A creature cannot use change shape to take the form of a creature with a template. Changing shape results in the following changes to the creature:

(Emphasis added)

 

[dead]

Thanks for the feedback! With that evidence, I'd agree that they bleed the blood of the creature they are impersonating.

Does change shape also include clothes/items of the creature to be impersonated or is it only the bodily form?

For example, the doppelganger in his true form is wearing a flowing white robe and carrying a rapier. If he changed into a city guardsman, could he make it look like he's wearing the guardsman's black cloak and chainmail and carrying a longsword? Or would he now be the guardsman but stuck in the white robe and carrying the rapier?

Or . . . could he change the robe into a like garment made out of cotton (eg. black pants and cloak) and not be able to do the chainmail which is metal? Similarly, he could change the rapier into a longsword (although it would still do the damage of the rapier).

 

[Herzog]

There is a Vestment of Many Styles in Races of Eberron that does just that: change into appropriate clothes.

Which to me, suggests the shapechange itself doesn't do that, or they would be superfluous...

 

[blargney the second]

Glamered armor is awesome for shapechangers.

 

[Theroc]

There is a Vestment of Many Styles in Races of Eberron that does just that: change into appropriate clothes.

Which to me, suggests the shapechange itself doesn't do that, or they would be superfluous...

It was my understanding that the Changelings Change shape and the Dopplegangers ability were different, the distinction being the Changelings clothes do not change with them.

I can't find where I read this, however.

 

[freyar]

Here's the relevant part of the change shape ability from the SRD (which is what the doppelganger has):

Any gear worn or carried by the creature that can’t be worn or carried in its new form instead falls to the ground in its space. If the creature changes size, any gear it wears or carries that can be worn or carried in its new form changes size to match the new size. (Nonhumanoid-shaped creatures can’t wear armor designed for humanoid-shaped creatures, and viceversa.) Gear returns to normal size if dropped.

So clothing would change size but not style or shape, AFAICT.

 

[ROC_Priest]

Here's the relevant part of the change shape ability from the SRD (which is what the doppelganger has):



So clothing would change size but not style or shape, AFAICT.

I would have to disagree a little. If you take "Races of Destiny" and look at the picture with the doppelganger making a shapechange at pages 94. Then you will see that the cloth is changing shape to. But i would agree that is not explained very good. i had my doubt about it in the first place. but i came to the conclusion that it can change the cloth to, based on the picture from the book. Why would wizards of the coast have the picture with, if it wasnt true. What i would like to now is. If a doppelganger with a plate armor, shapechange to something with a robe. Would the "robe" have the same AC and would it make noise. A better description of the doppelgangers shapechange ability would be nice. Think i will contact Wizards, and ask them about this. I will post any respons i get.

 

[Jhaelen]

I would have to disagree a little. If you take "Races of Destiny" and look at the picture with the doppelganger making a shapechange at pages 94. Then you will see that the cloth is changing shape to. But i would agree that is not explained very good. i had my doubt about it in the first place. but i came to the conclusion that it can change the cloth to, based on the picture from the book. Why would wizards of the coast have the picture with, if it wasnt true. What i would like to now is. If a doppelganger with a plate armor, shapechange to something with a robe. Would the "robe" have the same AC and would it make noise. A better description of the doppelgangers shapechange ability would be nice. Think i will contact Wizards, and ask them about this. I will post any respons i get.

Errm, using art to defend a rule interpretation is ... interesting. Surely you know that the guidelines artists receive are often extremely vague?

According to the rules shapechange has no effect on clothing (other than changing size). This is both RAW and RAI.