Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Arlough" data-source="post: 5596075" data-attributes="member: 79335">Two things:<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Defenders aren't supposed to do damage, so it isn't suprising that it does the least damage.  This still doesn't address the question "Why has the support been so weak?"</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Multiple weapon damage is a fairly insignificant increase when compared to multi-attack (including multi-target) damage simply because between feats and items your flat damages far exceed the weapon damage.  A ranger using two Whips vs. two Longswords will not be doing significantly less damage by mid-Paragon tier, except that he may get more attacks in because of reach. This is, of course, assuming the same amount of bonuses to attack and damage are available to each. Hell, at higher levels it doesn't even matter what kind of weapon you are carrying (so long as it is the correct range and has a +3 proficiency) let alone how many of the damage dice you roll.</li> </ol>Of course, from my experience you can get just as good a controller (better, it seems to me) by building a controller type fighter.  I mean, really with the exception of the Invoker, controllers have sucked overall at control and only became okay at control with the release of additional material.But back to the OP's point.D&D4e is really a tactical combat system with a skill system stuck on the side.   When the game was first released, it was assumed that most groups would use maneuver warfare, focused fire, and harrying your foes so your allies could land a hit (aid another giving you a +2 attack bonus).But the two tactics that most people have experience with are focused damage and attrition, so that is what people did, and the fights became long. Add to that the fact that the only other tactic employed was power timing, and the fights became astoundingly long because people would suffer choice paralysis.  And then finally, most people moved toward strikers because they had the simplest roll to execute (nearly all power choices performed their primary roll in any situation) and gave an instant reward of being good at your roll.So the math for the characters was reworked and "fixed" so you had a better chance to hit without aid.  The monsters were then reworked so the fights were more brutal and swingy (thus more tension) but much shorter one way or the other.  The character concept was reworked so even fewer tactics (with the elimination power choice and power timing) were necessary, and they started focusing feats on the two aspects of the game system that were really well defined, Attack and Damage."If you want the children to love you, you have to give them the candy." -Jon StewartPeople want to have tense fights where they heroicly destroy enemies, and they can only do that with the tactics they know, so that is what we have been given.  Skill feats are wasted, in the classic sense, because they don't help the system achieve its goals (combat).  Kinda like the way a Hummer H2 with 23" chrome rims is a waste at Jeep Safari because it won't get you any further off the road than a Stock Ford Tempo.The solution, either limit the bonuses players can receive, accept the fact that for <90% of players, Attack is king and Damage is queen, or play a heavily skill based game.  And chances are, if you are looking for a non-combat game, other systems like FATE or WOD will serve you better, anyway.</blockquote>

Verification