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<blockquote data-quote="Galloglaich" data-source="post: 4743683" data-attributes="member: 77019">What you are talking about here are Genres.&nbsp; Within a given Genre the rules of the Genre supercede realism.&nbsp; &nbsp;What we are arguing is that realism is good to fall back on unless you have a good reason, like being inside a Genre.&nbsp; This is particularly true for a Generalist game like DnD, which is ostensibly meant to be serious rather than comedic like Toon, say.&nbsp; Of course you can make up a new Genre, or base one on the assumed expectations of your audience, but then that makes it harder to engage people who have to learn it and buy into it.&nbsp; Quite a challenge for an RPG which is already a type of game which new people have some trouble buying into.&nbsp;&nbsp;Yes, and most TV shows and films are basically crap.&nbsp; The ones which stand out are often the ones which convey real characters and real situations, contrary to the expectations of the audience, or the ones which make up their own new reality intentionally.&nbsp;But even within a Genre, realism can be useful.&nbsp;Some audience really liked the old kind of John Wayne war movies where the &quot;good guys&quot; never died and the supporting characters got neat little wounds at dramatic moments, and then gave moving speeches before they passed away.&nbsp; This is a cliche that became a Genre of it's own, and many people were very, very comfortable with that, so comfortable that these films stayed in that particular groove for decades.&nbsp; But eventually the unrealistic elements got so predictable they had become really boring even for people who knew nothing about warfare, and those kind of War movies stopped making money.&nbsp;Then a film like Saving Private Ryan comes along, and with a lot of expensive technical advice from historian Stephen Ambrose, added a touch of brutal realism in the D-Day landing scene which contributed to the film becomming wildly popular.&nbsp; Then Blackhawk Down showed the harsh reality of a gritty firefight in Somalia, and also gripped the audience (and made millions). Did these films have dramatic and frankly unrealistic elements?&nbsp; Of course!&nbsp; But by tapping into the reality of the nuanced (and often surprising) historical events they portrayed they were able to re-establish a foundation of verisimilitude which strengthened the Genre, and made the dramatic / unrealistic elements they did use stand out and seem more plausible.&nbsp;G.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Galloglaich, post: 4743683, member: 77019"] What you are talking about here are Genres. Within a given Genre the rules of the Genre supercede realism. What we are arguing is that realism is good to fall back on unless you have a good reason, like being inside a Genre. This is particularly true for a Generalist game like DnD, which is ostensibly meant to be serious rather than comedic like Toon, say. Of course you can make up a new Genre, or base one on the assumed expectations of your audience, but then that makes it harder to engage people who have to learn it and buy into it. Quite a challenge for an RPG which is already a type of game which new people have some trouble buying into. Yes, and most TV shows and films are basically crap. The ones which stand out are often the ones which convey real characters and real situations, contrary to the expectations of the audience, or the ones which make up their own new reality intentionally. But even within a Genre, realism can be useful. Some audience really liked the old kind of John Wayne war movies where the "good guys" never died and the supporting characters got neat little wounds at dramatic moments, and then gave moving speeches before they passed away. This is a cliche that became a Genre of it's own, and many people were very, very comfortable with that, so comfortable that these films stayed in that particular groove for decades. But eventually the unrealistic elements got so predictable they had become really boring even for people who knew nothing about warfare, and those kind of War movies stopped making money. Then a film like Saving Private Ryan comes along, and with a lot of expensive technical advice from historian Stephen Ambrose, added a touch of brutal realism in the D-Day landing scene which contributed to the film becomming wildly popular. Then Blackhawk Down showed the harsh reality of a gritty firefight in Somalia, and also gripped the audience (and made millions). Did these films have dramatic and frankly unrealistic elements? Of course! But by tapping into the reality of the nuanced (and often surprising) historical events they portrayed they were able to re-establish a foundation of verisimilitude which strengthened the Genre, and made the dramatic / unrealistic elements they did use stand out and seem more plausible. G. [/QUOTE]

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