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<blockquote data-quote="The-Magic-Sword" data-source="post: 8714178" data-attributes="member: 6801252">I grapple with this a lot, I think about death as a vegetable mechanic (in the sense of 'eat your vegetables!')-- its not enjoyable in and of itself, but it helps to make other parts of the game more enjoyable. Good design can maximize the thrills it provides, while minimizing the pain, but I don't think it can be fully avoided because the whole point is the game play created by having something to avoid.Honestly, I think even 'failure that isn't death' might run into trouble because it just abstracts the answer to whether or not the player is attached to the thing that they're losing as a result of the loss, if they don't, then its not useful as a mechanic beyond being able to claim it addresses the problem, but if they are then its just going to bother the way losing a character might. The best case scenario is that those things are things the player is less invested in than their character's life, but still invested in emotionally. But you still run into the issue of those things not being immediate to most situations.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="The-Magic-Sword, post: 8714178, member: 6801252"] I grapple with this a lot, I think about death as a vegetable mechanic (in the sense of 'eat your vegetables!')-- its not enjoyable in and of itself, but it helps to make other parts of the game more enjoyable. Good design can maximize the thrills it provides, while minimizing the pain, but I don't think it can be fully avoided because the whole point is the game play created by having something to [I]avoid.[/I] Honestly, I think even 'failure that isn't death' might run into trouble because it just abstracts the answer to whether or not the player is attached to the thing that they're losing as a result of the loss, if they don't, then its not useful as a mechanic beyond being able to claim it addresses the problem, but if they are then its just going to bother the way losing a character might. The best case scenario is that those things are things the player is less invested in than their character's life, but still invested in emotionally. But you still run into the issue of those things not being immediate to most situations. [/QUOTE]

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