Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8715788" data-attributes="member: 6801228">We have VASTLY different conceptions of who Bob is in this scenario. I mean, I literally said in the post you are replying to &quot;If the player actually wasn't following the plan and Leroy Jenkins'd it, then the players will call them usually, but if the player broke with the plan for what they thought was a good reason, or any number of other factors, could bring this sort of peer pressure into a really negative space.&quot;Again, someone whose response to the party talking to an NPC is to axe-murder them, and who always charges the enemy getting killed is likely going to be some smug from the other players. That's going to happen, and that is the consequence on their choices. But also, let me ask you, how many times has &quot;rubbing their face in it&quot; actually done anything to change someone's mind? If that was how the person was acting, then I as the DM should have stepped in FAR sooner because they are being a disruptive and disrespectful jerk. It shouldn't need to get to the point where their character died.However, you started your previous post with &quot;When the player with a dead PC&nbsp; who can't be raised right now needs &quot;to deal with not being able to play until they can get brought back or reintroduced to the campaign&quot; they are subject to the social pressure of how that adversely affects the entire group as you say&quot; And to me, first of all, you didn't specify why they died, which made it sound like you were advocating social pressure for PC death EVERY TIME. And I've been in toxic competence groups, where if you had any perceived failures they would grind into that so that you &quot;shaped up&quot; and &quot;followed their lead&quot;. So, imagine for a moment Bob isn't a jerk, isn't charging into pointless fights, and playing smart. Then they die and the group STILL rags on them about how Bob's decision to die is dragging the whole party down. That's not good. That's taking a situation where Bob feels terrible, because the death of a PC sucks, and makes it worse because everyone is blaming them for everything else that happened afterwards.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8715788, member: 6801228"] We have VASTLY different conceptions of who Bob is in this scenario. I mean, I literally said in the post you are replying to "[B][I]If the player actually wasn't following the plan and Leroy Jenkins'd it, then the players will call them usually[/I][/B], but if the player broke with the plan for what they thought was a good reason, or any number of other factors, could bring this sort of peer pressure into a really negative space." Again, someone whose response to the party talking to an NPC is to axe-murder them, and who always charges the enemy getting killed is likely going to be some smug from the other players. That's going to happen, and that is the consequence on their choices. But also, let me ask you, how many times has "rubbing their face in it" actually done anything to change someone's mind? If that was how the person was acting, then I as the DM should have stepped in FAR sooner because they are being a disruptive and disrespectful jerk. It shouldn't need to get to the point where their character died. However, you started your previous post with "When the player with a dead PC who can't be raised right now needs "to deal with not being able to play until they can get brought back or reintroduced to the campaign" [B]they are subject to the social pressure of how that adversely affects the entire group as you say[/B]" And to me, first of all, you didn't specify why they died, which made it sound like you were advocating social pressure for PC death EVERY TIME. And I've been in toxic competence groups, where if you had any perceived failures they would grind into that so that you "shaped up" and "followed their lead". So, imagine for a moment Bob isn't a jerk, isn't charging into pointless fights, and playing smart. Then they die and the group STILL rags on them about how Bob's decision to die is dragging the whole party down. That's not good. That's taking a situation where Bob feels terrible, because the death of a PC sucks, and makes it worse because everyone is blaming them for everything else that happened afterwards. [/QUOTE]

Verification