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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mercurius" data-source="post: 5323078" data-attributes="member: 59082">I think this conversation left the initial bit about the comparison of Pathfinder's world guide and 3.5E to 4E. A few people keep on chiming in and telling me I'm wrong, evidently missing the posts where I pretty much agree that they aren't the same in degree. I understand and agree that a world guide is different than a rules set. That said, let's move on to what this thread is really about, at least at this point, which is the change of editions in D&D. And I think we're actually successfully talking about it without falling into an edition war! (Knocks on wood).My assertion still stands that the ire directed towards WotC for coming out with 4E is misplaced. Why? Because of something I stated earlier and is key to this whole discussion, IMHO: If Wizards of the Coast had not come out with 4E, D&D would have stagnated and eventually declined into another "Dark Age."As I said, maybe 2008 was too soon. 2009 might have been better, but 2010 would have been high time and 2011 might have been too late. A company simply cannot retain its size without or revitalizing their product in some way, and in the case of an RPG company that means re-booting the system, starting the product cycle all over again.Can we agree that this is a necessity? 3.5 was getting awfully close to being tapped out; sure, they could have come out with another new setting or two, but what about crunch? How many splats could they possibly have published? Things were already starting to get watered down.I am not saying that WotC could not have handled things better. Sure,  they could have. They could have offered a new OGL, or at least grandfathered in established d20 publishers. Maybe they could have made a 3.75E instead of a 4E, but I would argue that this would have merely delayed the inevitable.4E was necessary. I would even say that the degree to which it was a new game and not merely a new edition was also necessary to enable a full re-booting (although I still don't agree that the difference between 3.5E and 4E is greater than 2E and 3E).To address a couple points:I am addressing the "problem" by showing that it isn't one, or rather it isn't as big of a problem as many are making it out to be. See the above. A new edition is not a problem, it is a necessity.Again, see what I wrote above. First of all, WotC had already introduced a "new game" in 3E, which was as new as 4E was, or at least roughly so. Furthermore, as I have been saying, a new edition in the way that you mean would not have been enough. If WotC had essentially published Pathfinder in 2008 as "D&D 3.75E" people would be crying foul just as loudly, if not moreso. And it, as a partial rebooting, would have only delayed the inevitable total rebooting. First of all, as some have said, this depends upon the individual. Some find the conversion from 3.X to 4E not so difficult. I'm still trying to get my head around why it is so difficult and all I can think of is that the folks that say it is difficult are being too exacting. I mean, a party of drow is a party of drow, right? It doesn't matter what edition. Furthermore, with "Rule Zero" (DM Fiat) one can ad hoc adjust any situation, one can "convert" on the fly. Secondly, even if this is true--that 3.X to 4E conversion is difficult--so what? There are literally thousands of 3.X products available, far more than 4E--and probably far more than 4E will ever have before it is superceded by 5E (thanks to the OGL). And it is not as if 4E is flooding the market with new adventures and such to be converted.Fair enough, although I think this is only partially true. The other part of it is the demonization WotC receives as being Top Dog. I don't even disagree with those who have said that this is as it should be. But let's just recognize it for what it is.This is misleading. The DDI tools I assume Lucky is speaking of are Character Builder and Monster Builder. These can be downloaded through subscribing for one month at $10. That's $10 and $10 only to get everything published from June, 2008 to now. To get further updates one has to re-subscribe, but one could subscribe once a year for $10 and get every monster and every character option available. Not a bad deal, and hardly a huge cost.Yes, well said.Again, well said.</blockquote>

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