If Psionics replaced magic...

[Desdichado]

I was having a discussion in a chatroom the other day, and I'm curious how this would work out.

So, you don't want any magic; you want psionics instead, as a change-of-pace setting. You've got the Expanded Psionics Handbook, Complete Psion and of course the Player's Handbook. What do you put in and what do you take out? What would be your available classes and races?

I'm thinking from the PHB, there's only three or four classes that can pass muster, since so many of them have a spell progression. :\ Fighter, rogue, barbarian and maybe monk. But if you add in the psion, the psychic warrior, the wilder, the soulknife, the lurk, the ardent and the divine mind, you've got a pretty good selection of classes again.

I'm also thinking that elves, dwarves, halflings---maybe gnomes, too---are too entrenched with the whole "classic" magic-based fantasy and I'd rather do without them. So from the PHB you've got human and.... maybe half-orc? But of course there's a bazillion racial options out there: which ones would you use?

Also; does this cover healing adequately, or do you have to make other considerations as a DM? I'm OK doing that; playing games other than D&D has taught me long ago not to assume that there's a handy cleric that can heal all my wounds and even raise me from the dead with very little inconvenience, but having not really used psionics much, I'm not sure how well XPH plus Complete Psion cover that ground, and I'd certainly want to know.

 

[Whisper72]

Concerning healing, I personally deem 'magic-magic' to be completely different from 'divine-magic', so in a sense, I would foresee a campaign where the cleric, druid and the paladin would remain intact, and only the other classes would be axed.

Just my own take on the issue...

 

[Whisper72]

Oh... and as for races.... I do not see any problem with making gnomes inherently 'psionic' or even the elves, transferring their 'magic aura' to a psionic flavour.

I guess it depends upon the extend to which you want to get rid of 'magic' from a rules point of view or from a more fundamental 'vibe' point of view. In the first case, there are many things which remain the same, simply the mechanics are replaced (and thus a bunch of classes). If you want to go completely different in style elements as well, then a lot more needs to change. Even then, it is largely flavour wise. If you make your elves and gnomes more 'fey' like, and less tolkienesque, then these races might well be salvaged quite nicely.

 

[Desdichado]

I guess it depends upon the extend to which you want to get rid of 'magic' from a rules point of view or from a more fundamental 'vibe' point of view.

Moreso than you, apparently. I certainly don't want to keep divine magic alongside psionics. Frankly, I don't care as much about the races, but without magic, that seems a good excuse to dump the cliched ones and run with something different for a while.

The whole point of this is to give it a different feel, and your suggestions insert "standard" feel back in.

 

[Jackelope King]

I ran a game like this, where psionics were used in place of magic wholesale. Most races were "human", but there were lots of different human subraces.

It was a sort of stalled Age of Exploration, where colonists from two great empires were being forced to coexist with the formerly subjugated native peoples. A great cataclysm had just befallen the world, wiping out most of the old empires and other peoples except for on this small, recently-colonized continent. Psionic classes like the psion and psionic artificer represented natural philosophers and used a high-order branch of mathematics to manipulate affinities and produce "magic" (a term which they scoffed at... it was perfectly understandable science with the proper proofs). Other psionic classes like the wilder were used by churches as priests and by natives as shamans, who understood some basic concepts of psiocalculus, but were more raw and driven by instinct.

However, this was a stalled Age of Exploration, sinking back into the dark ages. Though psionic characters would call such things "superstition", spiritualists lurked in the shadows, forming pacts with the countless alien spirits that existed beyond the veil, trading their very souls for powers (Incarnum with Binder flavor). Yes, the existance of spirits is well-known, using them for "witchcraft" was laughable until the covens began to mobilize.

For races, I gave almost all of the classics the axe and modified XPH races. Xephs became the Netit, a very Chinese-feeling race from one of the two great old Empires. Half-Giants functioned as the Dojif, massive hunter/gatherers who dwelled on the frozen steppes. The Giths and many of the stranger races became races of "manifest spirits" given flesh by circumstances which they themselves rarely understand to walk among mortals. One Netit clan began to manifacture Elans as ruthless psychic enforcers.

"Magical" healing became a rare and wondrous thing. Most people needed to rely on potentially poisonous alchemic elixirs, which converted lethal damage to nonlethal. Oh, there were a few "miracle healers" (like a Wilder from the Megidol Empire, a priestess who was called 'The Touch of Life") who were certainly highly sought after. Healing was generally sufficient overall, but it wasn't as reliable as with divine magic.

 

[Nifft]

Copy/paste from similar thread elsewhere...

My ideal Psionics-only setting, including bits from Complete Psionic:

Races:
- Human
- Elan
- Changeling
- Warforged

If you want shorties, Halflings and Dwarves are IMHO not deeply tied to the magic system.


Classes:
- Barbarian, Fighter, Monk, Rogue
- Psion, Psychic Warrior, Ardent, Lurk, Wilder
- Tome of Battle classes?

IMHO, the Soulknife is technically balanced (though a bit on the weak side), but it's so pigeonholed into being a second-string skirmisher AND NOTHING ELSE that I'd drop it. Maybe use one of the Soulknife-as-feat-chain fixes from the WotC Psionics board instead, if you love the Mindblade concept.


Healing: Add in the healing powers from the CompPsi, and increase the HP they heal, since there's no longer a danger of stepping on a Cleric's toes.

Touch of Health: should cure 4 hp/pp (double what it does now).

Mend Wounds: should cure a base 77, +7/pp.


Optional: Don't prohibit Magic, just make it odd and alien. Include Warlocks and Binders. If you have Magic of Incarnum, include Incarnates and Totemists, too. (Don't bother with Soulborn, they're painfully underpowered.)

Cheers, -- N

 

[Psion]

I was having a discussion in a chatroom the other day, and I'm curious how this would work out.

So, you don't want any magic; you want psionics instead, as a change-of-pace setting. You've got the Expanded Psionics Handbook, Complete Psion and of course the Player's Handbook. What do you put in and what do you take out? What would be your available classes and races?

I'm thinking from the PHB, there's only three or four classes that can pass muster, since so many of them have a spell progression. :\ Fighter, rogue, barbarian and maybe monk. But if you add in the psion, the psychic warrior, the wilder, the soulknife, the lurk, the ardent and the divine mind, you've got a pretty good selection of classes again.

I'm also thinking that elves, dwarves, halflings---maybe gnomes, too---are too entrenched with the whole "classic" magic-based fantasy and I'd rather do without them. So from the PHB you've got human and.... maybe half-orc? But of course there's a bazillion racial options out there: which ones would you use?

Easiest thing to do would be to swap in the XPH races, remove nonhumans from the PHB as you see fit.

Also; does this cover healing adequately, or do you have to make other considerations as a DM? I'm OK doing that; playing games other than D&D has taught me long ago not to assume that there's a handy cleric that can heal all my wounds and even raise me from the dead with very little inconvenience, but having not really used psionics much, I'm not sure how well XPH plus Complete Psion cover that ground, and I'd certainly want to know.

There are a few healing options (some ardent mantles in the Complete Psionic provide some replacement cleric abilities, but that's sort of a specific build; there's a healing PrC at the WotC's website in one of the Mind's Eye articles.) In the XPH, it takes a 3rd level power to equal a cure light or thereabouts.

You might want to consider using the reserve HP option from the Unearthed Arcana (replicated here.)

 

[WayneLigon]

For races, I gave almost all of the classics the axe and modified XPH races. Xephs became the Netit, a very Chinese-feeling race from one of the two great old Empires. Half-Giants functioned as the Dojif, massive hunter/gatherers who dwelled on the frozen steppes. The Giths and many of the stranger races became races of "manifest spirits" given flesh by circumstances which they themselves rarely understand to walk among mortals. One Netit clan began to manifacture Elans as ruthless psychic enforcers.

"Magical" healing became a rare and wondrous thing. Most people needed to rely on potentially poisonous alchemic elixirs, which converted lethal damage to nonlethal. Oh, there were a few "miracle healers" (like a Wilder from the Megidol Empire, a priestess who was called 'The Touch of Life") who were certainly highly sought after. Healing was generally sufficient overall, but it wasn't as reliable as with divine magic.

And you'll be writing this up when? You just described the first PDF campaign setting I'd buy That sounds absolutely wonderful.

 

[Desdichado]

You might want to consider using the reserve HP option from the Unearthed Arcana (replicated here.)

Yeah, I got plenty of options, I just want to make sure that I understand what the psionic classes are capable of compared to the cleric before I consider changes there. Sounds like the psionic classes are not as good as the cleric (which I suspected) but how do they stack up to, say, having a druid in your party instead of a cleric?

 

[Jackelope King]

And you'll be writing this up when? You just described the first PDF campaign setting I'd buy That sounds absolutely wonderful.

If I ever do, I'll let you know