Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
If the devils are how monsters will be....I am so happy
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 4029059" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I'm not sure whether your point is one about encounters with Pit Fiends + minions, or about single Pit Fiends.</p><p></p><p>But anyway, looking at the current SLAs:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">*create undead: largely irrelevant in combat, and is apt to be replicable via Rituals in 4e if desired.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*greater teleport: in 4e it has teleport as a movement type, and some good ideas on this have already been given in this thread (plus there may be relevant Rituals here also).</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*fireball, meteor swarm: replaced by Aura of Fire and Irrestible Command, so no obvious net loss of the ability to do fire damage.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*magic circle against good, unholy aura: the buffs are already factored into its stats, and the strength damage from the unholy aura is subsumed into its Aura of Fear.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*blasphemy, mass hold monster, power word stun: these are a mixture of penalty-infliction and action-denial (as Med Stud noted, they are not manipulation abilities) - in 4e, Point of Terror as a minor (swift? I assume) action seems to do the job nicely, not requiring the Pit Fiend to forego a standard action (it seems pretty likely that 4e will not have magical action-denial, and that this will have to be achieved through actual battlefield tactics, which the Pit Fiend will achieve via minions).</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*greater dispel magic: I wouldn't be surprise if dispel magic and anti-magic field as we know them are gone, but to the extent that this acts as a debuff then Point of Terror takes its place.</p><p></p><p>That leaves invisibility and persistent image as the two abilities that have not had some functional equivalent substituted for them.</p><p></p><p>I have two comments on that: (i) I don't know that a lot of people will miss illusionist Pit Fiends, and (ii) this is not really the loss of a raft of tactical options - invisibility is not very tactically complex (and at that level, won't most parties have some sort of true seeing up anyway?), so all that's really gone is deception via illusions. And that's been replaced by Tactical Teleport, which gives the Pit Fiend battlefield control via minions.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 4029059, member: 42582"] I'm not sure whether your point is one about encounters with Pit Fiends + minions, or about single Pit Fiends. But anyway, looking at the current SLAs: [indent]*create undead: largely irrelevant in combat, and is apt to be replicable via Rituals in 4e if desired. *greater teleport: in 4e it has teleport as a movement type, and some good ideas on this have already been given in this thread (plus there may be relevant Rituals here also). *fireball, meteor swarm: replaced by Aura of Fire and Irrestible Command, so no obvious net loss of the ability to do fire damage. *magic circle against good, unholy aura: the buffs are already factored into its stats, and the strength damage from the unholy aura is subsumed into its Aura of Fear. *blasphemy, mass hold monster, power word stun: these are a mixture of penalty-infliction and action-denial (as Med Stud noted, they are not manipulation abilities) - in 4e, Point of Terror as a minor (swift? I assume) action seems to do the job nicely, not requiring the Pit Fiend to forego a standard action (it seems pretty likely that 4e will not have magical action-denial, and that this will have to be achieved through actual battlefield tactics, which the Pit Fiend will achieve via minions). *greater dispel magic: I wouldn't be surprise if dispel magic and anti-magic field as we know them are gone, but to the extent that this acts as a debuff then Point of Terror takes its place.[/indent] That leaves invisibility and persistent image as the two abilities that have not had some functional equivalent substituted for them. I have two comments on that: (i) I don't know that a lot of people will miss illusionist Pit Fiends, and (ii) this is not really the loss of a raft of tactical options - invisibility is not very tactically complex (and at that level, won't most parties have some sort of true seeing up anyway?), so all that's really gone is deception via illusions. And that's been replaced by Tactical Teleport, which gives the Pit Fiend battlefield control via minions. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
If the devils are how monsters will be....I am so happy
Top