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Message: <blockquote data-quote="HeinorNY" data-source="post: 4029546" data-attributes="member: 16178">Please, allow me to post here the same post I posted in D&D boards. I'm lazy to write a new one.Pit Fiend 4E and Pit Fiend 3.5Let me compare the two Pit Fiends to see if the new Pit Fiend is really boring comparing to the old one.Attacks3.5: Claw, wing, tail, bite attacks. Disease.4E: 4E has a decreased number of attacks, wich is a good thing. Combat is faster. A flaming mace attack is much cooler than claws and bites. He is a devil lord, not a rabid dog.-Disease is changed to poisoned attacks, an improve, since 4E poison rules are much simpler to handle. We really don't need to handle poison AND disease mechanics in the middle of a fight...Special Attacks3.5: Constricts, Fear Aura, improved grab, spell like abilities, summon devil.4E: No constricts or improved grab, since grapple in 4E is probably much different than 3.5's. Those abilities were complicated and slowed the fight. Won't be missed. -Fear Aura stays and it's MUCH simpler and intuitive to handle. -It also has a new Fire Aura, which is cool and easy to resolve too. -Pit Fiend frenzy is not really a special attack, more like a special full attack due to the probable change on how the system handle multiple attacks.-Summon Devil is now called Infernal Summons, and it's much more useful, since it's a per encounter power and more powerful since the devils receive a kind of "moral" bonus to their attacks.-He also has Point of Terror, Irresistible Command and Tactical Teleport but I'll talk about them later.Special Qualities3.5: Damage reduction 15/good and silver, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to fire and poison, resistance to acid 10 and cold 10, regeneration 5, see in darkness, spell resistance 32, telepathy 100 ft.4E: DR gone since alignments don't play on the rules anymore, devils are not werewolves so no silver DR too. DR in 4E is probably different or just doesn't exist anymore. -Immunities turned to Resistences wich is much better, now you can throw a Pit Fiend in the Sun and he will die. -No regeneration, but the Pit Fiend has more HPs and the HP system in 4E is different too so not a big loss here for the Pit.-Darkvision remains.-SR is probably gone from the system.-Telepathy is gone, but the Pit has Supernal language, which is probably like a telepathic language.Spell-like abilities3.5: At will—blasphemy (DC 25), create undead, fireball (DC 21), greater dispel magic, greater teleport (self plus 50 pounds of objects only), invisibility, magic circle against good, mass hold monster (DC 27), persistent image (DC 23), power word stun, unholy aura (DC 26); 1/day—meteor swarm (DC 27). Caster level 18th. The save DCs are Charisma-based. 4E: No more spell like abilities, but did the Pit Fiend reall lose "versability"?-Blasphemy's thematic effects, or its fluff effect, are now under the Aura of Fear. It's an aura that makes enemies fight worse. We don't need 2 of them around.-Unholy Aura. We also don't need ANOTHER aura to handle, like the Unholy aura, but it's not gone, it's in the Infernal Summons Power. The effect of an "aura that make allies fight better" is still there. Other mechanics related to alignments are obviously gone.-Greater teleport is now simply Tactical Teleport.-Mass Hold Monster is not entirely gone. The Pit Fiend can command his devil allies to explode, wich is much more useful in a combat and also outside a combat, as a tool to command his servants. Pit Fiend is a soldier and commander, a kind of devilish leader, and not a controller. I'm personally glad hold monster is gone for a more thematically interesting power.-Power Word Stun is gone, but the Pit Fiend has Point of Terror, which thematically is almost the same, but in a combat is much more useful, since he doesn't lose an attack to do it, and for the game it's easier to handle.-Magic circle against good wouldn't be useful in 4E for obvious reasons.-Create undead is gone. Create undead?? In some stories it can be cool for a Pit Fiend to create undeads, but ALL Pit Fiends in hell be able to do it? The same with invisibility, dispel magic and persistent images. They can be useful abilities, but are they really Devilish Thematic, should really ALL Pit Fiends have them, or just some few individuals?-No more fireball and meteor swarms. But did the Pit Fiend lose any coolness or versability because he can't just stay there throwing fireballs after fireballs on the party? Oh but don't forget the Aura of Fire. Devilish fire punishment is still there, it's just more devilish and less wizardly.Skills3.5: Balance +10, Bluff +29, Climb +34, Concentration +29, Diplomacy +10, Disguise +29 (+31 acting), Hide +25, Intimidate +31, Jump +40, Knowledge (arcana) +29, Knowledge (nature) +10, Knowledge (the planes) +29, Knowledge (religion) +29, Listen +29, Move Silently +29, Search +29, Spellcraft +31, Spot +29, Survival +8 (+10 on other planes, +10 when tracking), Tumble +314E: One of the best parts. We don't need to calculate skill pts anymore in 4E, based on monster type, HD etc, (thank god). Pit Fiend didn't lose any skill check. All he needs to do now when doing anything skill related, is to look at his Ability Score modifiers, add half his level (which is automatically done at monster creation for obvious simplicity) and roll skill check. In his stats, all we need are the skill in wich he is trained and gains a +5 bonus.Other numbersWe can't really compare saving throws, initiative,attack rolls, damage rolls, AC, HP because numbers in 4E are a bit different. Power ranges are different too. Well, I really don't think the Pit Fiend is boring now. He is thematically much better. His tactical options are more related to the fact he is an infernal commander and not just a big brute with lots of wizards powers.Did he lose non combat abilities? Which one????He gained a new non combat power that is very useful when commanding his inferiors, he can explode them if they do not obey him. They need to be his "allies"? Well... the devil is in his domain, it's his ally, simple. Pit Fiend: "I can't command you? Are you not my ally imp? So taste my flaming mace!"Weaker Devil: "I'm sorry big one, my life is your for all time, I beg your mercy!Pit Fiend: "This is much better, now explode. *BOOM* Anyone else wants to discuss allegiances?"He still casts wish, he gained a teleport movement AND a big fire mace!He is also more unique (and that's what I like more about the new Pit Fiend). His powers are Pit Fiend's powers now! Take a look at 3.5 Pit Fiend, what's "Pit Fiendish" about them? Fireball and meteor swarm? Wizards can do it. Diseases and poisons? nah. Create Undead, dispel magic? Is he a necromancer? Regeneration? Trolls have it. Constrict and Improved Grab? Lots of monsters have it... boooring. Summon Devils? Yeah, that's kind of Pit Fiendish, that's why it remains. The same with Fear Aura. Oh but he is a big flaming winged horned monster from hell. So is the Balor. Tell me, what is "Pit Fiendish" about the 3.5 Pit Fiend?</blockquote>

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