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If the devils are how monsters will be....I am so happy
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<blockquote data-quote="Mustrum_Ridcully" data-source="post: 4042549" data-attributes="member: 710"><p>I think one important difference in comparing the 3.5 and the 4E pit fiend is that 4th edition monsters do not just have their level, they have their "weight category" - ranging from Minion to Solo.</p><p></p><p>In a typical D&D 3.x encounter, you would want to use the Pit Fiend alone, when his CR is 2-5 points higher than the party. You might add some lower CR cannon fodder/meat shield, but the Pit Fiends abilities (with Blasphemy against everyone and Silence agaisnt spellcasters) certainly make it possible for him to occupy a party. (Unless they have some buffs or spells active that protect them, in which case the whole thing might be a cakewalk.</p><p>Unfortunetely, the nature of 3.5 combat for monsters means that the "Boss" Pit Fiend in this scenario will really need to rely on abilities that effect all characters very strongly (like Blasphemy) to be able to cope with the mass of actions his opponents will bring to bear.</p><p>This 1 vs 4 actions per rounds makes "real" tactical play different. Making only 2-4 choices in an encounter leaves little room for varied tactics, it becomes a thing of using the most powerful abilities as soon as possible and hope it works out. There is little space for adjusting this tactic.</p><p></p><p>The Pit Fiend in 4E is "only" an Elite monster. This means you need at least two of them to have an encounter of the suggested difficulty. This alone means you don't have to worry that much about his lack of actions - he has at least one powerful ally. On top of that, he can quickly summon more of them. The Action ratio between PCs and monsters becomes more beneficial for the monster. This also means each monster needs less powerful abilities, and alot of their options are emergent in combat - how you use the tactical teleportation power, where to summon minions, where to teleport, all this stuff has a lot of considerations attached that are become apparent in the flow of combat. </p><p></p><p>3.5 basically needed you to figure out the best spells to actually use from the host of the Pit Fiends abilities. </p><p>4E will need you to figure out the best use of the Pit Fiends abiliies and allies during an individual combat.</p><p></p><p>I guess it depends a lot on a DMs preferences which variant is easier for him to handle, or if they really just shift the complexities from one area to another. (I infact suspect the latter, but I find figuring out a clever tactic during a combat a little more rewarding. THough I am afraid I might suck at it against my smart and experienced players. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> )</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mustrum_Ridcully, post: 4042549, member: 710"] I think one important difference in comparing the 3.5 and the 4E pit fiend is that 4th edition monsters do not just have their level, they have their "weight category" - ranging from Minion to Solo. In a typical D&D 3.x encounter, you would want to use the Pit Fiend alone, when his CR is 2-5 points higher than the party. You might add some lower CR cannon fodder/meat shield, but the Pit Fiends abilities (with Blasphemy against everyone and Silence agaisnt spellcasters) certainly make it possible for him to occupy a party. (Unless they have some buffs or spells active that protect them, in which case the whole thing might be a cakewalk. Unfortunetely, the nature of 3.5 combat for monsters means that the "Boss" Pit Fiend in this scenario will really need to rely on abilities that effect all characters very strongly (like Blasphemy) to be able to cope with the mass of actions his opponents will bring to bear. This 1 vs 4 actions per rounds makes "real" tactical play different. Making only 2-4 choices in an encounter leaves little room for varied tactics, it becomes a thing of using the most powerful abilities as soon as possible and hope it works out. There is little space for adjusting this tactic. The Pit Fiend in 4E is "only" an Elite monster. This means you need at least two of them to have an encounter of the suggested difficulty. This alone means you don't have to worry that much about his lack of actions - he has at least one powerful ally. On top of that, he can quickly summon more of them. The Action ratio between PCs and monsters becomes more beneficial for the monster. This also means each monster needs less powerful abilities, and alot of their options are emergent in combat - how you use the tactical teleportation power, where to summon minions, where to teleport, all this stuff has a lot of considerations attached that are become apparent in the flow of combat. 3.5 basically needed you to figure out the best spells to actually use from the host of the Pit Fiends abilities. 4E will need you to figure out the best use of the Pit Fiends abiliies and allies during an individual combat. I guess it depends a lot on a DMs preferences which variant is easier for him to handle, or if they really just shift the complexities from one area to another. (I infact suspect the latter, but I find figuring out a clever tactic during a combat a little more rewarding. THough I am afraid I might suck at it against my smart and experienced players. :) ) [/QUOTE]
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If the devils are how monsters will be....I am so happy
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