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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 2059751" data-attributes="member: 1465">Tough job to sort out!First thing on my mind was to start from the Bard class, since they also get up to 6th level spells. But the Bard gets access to those spell levels later compared to Wiz/Sor, so it is still quite different. If it was ok for you, would you accept the idea of delaying higher level spells a little? (This has to do also with your ideas from the other thread, to allow arcane spellcasters already only at a high character level, delaying them more could be too much).Because if you do, you could try to model your Wiz/Sor pretty much around the core Bard. For example:Sorcerer- spells per day like a Bard (less than Sor)- spells known like a Bard (about the same as Sor)- spell list like the core Sorcerer- HD, skill points, ST can be like the Bard or modified as you wishYou can then concentrate on taking away the Bard-only features one by one (Bardic Music, Bardic Knowledge, extra proficiencies, cast in light armor) in exchange for more spells per day or known - how many is still THE open issue, but at least it may be easier to adjust "piece by piece". You can also of course leave some of these features, such as casting in light armor.Wizard- start from your Sorcerer results above except the modified number of spellsDo the same swapping of abilities for increased slots and spells known. Since it's going to prepare spells instead of cast spontaneously, it's probably best to give him less spells/day and more known (as usual) than the Sorcerer, but still both more than the Bard.If you leave some bardic feature, perhaps give something different this time (Bardic Knowledge seems appropriate, but even one specific use of Bardic Music modified for flavor*).The general results will be a Sorcerer and Wizard with slow spell access, cap at 6th, more HP and skills, and 1-2 special abilities. And of course more spells per day and known, but I'm not able to easily suggest how many (I see this is your main issue here...).*such as non-musical and based on Spellcraft instead of Perform</blockquote>

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