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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Grinnen Baeritt" data-source="post: 4397823" data-attributes="member: 71566">Ok. First an apology, I haven't read ALL of what has been posted above so I may repeat some other posters sentiments regarding this subject. Although I like the general idea of minions as being basically 1 hit cannon fodder I do have some reservations.. and this I suppose is related to how things used to be (in all previous editions) and involves hp's of monsters in general. To me, and many other I expect the idea of minions (cannon fodder) is not exactly a new thing. However, it does seem as if the standard version of the creatures that WERE cannon fodder have now become anything but and that 4th ed has imlemented a huge rift between the toughness of a minion and standard-type monsters like the humaniods.  The extra potiental for leader-types and solo monsters is good and matches the power increases that have occured in the characters. IMO this doesn't need changing. What I'm trying to say that rather than having a "Minion"/Standard forms of such creature at all, make ALL such creatures "Minions" but change the way that damage is recorded to them and change them to a differing definition perhaps a "Horde" creature. Instead of only having 1hp, each "horde" creature has a indeterminate number of hit points, these are checked only when the creature suffers damage. Only the dice type used is recorded in the scenario.  If the damage caused to the creature exceeds that randomly determined amount in one blow that creature is dead, if it isn't then it simply continues fighting. NO DAMAGE IS RECORDED the player simply assumes that the creature is tougher than normal and has more hit points. (Much the same as the current rules for minions/standard creatures work) except there is no distinction between the two and no real way for the players to guess. So for hp, Kobold would have 1d4, Goblin a 1d6, Orc/Hobgoblin 1d8 etc  These dice are rolled and compared to the damage caused to them when the creature is hit and the damage caused is less than the highest possible result of the hp dice. A Critical simply kills them regardless of damage caused. The current stat block is used with additions to damage etc for level increases as per normal, but for each additional level the creatures base hp dice total is only increased by 1. e.g. a Kobold with 4 level increases has 1d4+4. In most cases, there will not be a noticable difference between the standard minion. e.g. A 1st level fighter doing 1d8+4 WILL automatically kill a standard Kobold, thus the hp dice need not be rolled. Though a Cleric doing 1d6+1 has a roughly 50% chance of killing a Kobold even with minimum damage.  Therefore the Player determines damage, if it less than the potiental maximum for the creature then the DM rolls for it's hit points.If the player fails to exceed that, the creature survives and the next player to hit it follows the same procedure. The creatures hp are re-rolled. No damage is recorded between blows, it is either dead or effectively unharmed. The damage caused by misses WOULD cause damage in the same fashion. Thus a wizard doing 24 points of damage would still automatically kill any creatures having 12 or less hp caught in the area of effect. The net result is a system where the DM does not need as much book-keeping and the monsters become more of a variable threat. I quite like the idea that the creature becomes bloodied after a hit as mention in one of the posts above, in this case I'd suggest the creature becoming "bloodied" if it survives ANY hit.</blockquote>

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