If you roll dice for stats and HPs...

[Jens]

Ok, this may sound weird, but I'm trying to show the weirdness (wrongwordiknow) of randomly determining 2 permanent aspects of characters' abilities and not the other aspects.

If you roll dice for stats and HPs... ... then you shound also roll dice for...

• d20 for the base number in AC (+d20, rolled once and kept forever, instead of just +10)
• Skillpoints: Replace 2 with 2d2-1, 4 with 2d3, and 8 with 2d6+1.
• Increases in BAB, saves, and spell slots/known: Instead of increasing by "+1", you should increase by 2d2-2 or d3-1.[/list=a]So what do you think? Do you agree that D&D is inconsistant here, or do you tiong it's just fine to have ficed increases for some things and random increases for another thing?

 

[Clay_More]

davs der Jens

Well, the concept of the game is somewhat centred around the randomness of your stats. Even though, many people employ buy-point systems that reduces the ability scfore predicament. Off course, it leaves the game more open to Min/Maxers, which is what the creators might intended.
Using dice to determine ability scores is good, as it forces players to utilise what they get. Off course, I normally allow them to reroll if its really, really bad, but otherwise they use what they get. Sometimes, they have to work around having one or two really low scores, which can be amusing for gameplay. I have succesfully implemented Charisma as an important skill, which has made many players more cautious of using it as a dump score. After the figher who had a good charisma score bargained himself into a good deal on a magic blade, the others got kinda nervous about having too low Charisma scores.

The HP is not making sense though, as it isn't really part of your character, Role-Playing wise. Thats why I normally give the players an amount of HP that equal the average they would normally get (3 Hp instead of 1d4, 4 Hp instead of 1d6 etc.)

 

[Destil]

So what do you think? Do you agree that D&D is inconsistant here, or do you tiong it's just fine to have ficed increases for some things and random increases for another thing?

Two words: Sacred Cow.

 

[Crothian]

Too much random like you are saying slows down the game. Plus the random is in character generation, so it's apples and oranges. The trick is to get a decent amount of random choices and personal choices.

 

[dcollins]

I think it's fine to have some random things and some fixed things.

Particularly if the former are natural aspects that people are generally born with (physical & mental statistics, resistance to injury) and the latter are things which are training-based and they can choose to learn and train in (i.e., class-level-based)

 

[Herremann the Wise]

You present a few interesting ideas - and I believe "inconsistency" is the word you were looking for. Unfortunately, as you will see, the inconsistency is non-existent.

Randomness in terms of rolling dice effectively equates to fitting characters on a Bell Curve. In other words, a bell curve means that the majority of characters will be average while you have less people at the exceptional ends - be it good or bad.

Now you mention AC. The reason it is +10 is purely as an average. I can appreviate that you might want to have this randomly chosen but is that realistic? Factors affecting AC - such as Natural Armor and Dexterity - are already taken into account, giving the variation credibility. Given a choice of having a good AC because of credible instances - such as good dex - versus some unknown random factor is obvious, of clarity and more importantly, fair. As you can see, the randomness - of Dexterity - has been taken into account and is the main "variability" for AC.

Skill-points is another tricky issue. Again, the variability - in this case Intelligence - has been taken into account. If your character's dumb, they don't pick up very much do they. If they are very intelligent however, they are good at picking up skills.
The variability you crave has already been taken into account.

As for your last point of BAB/ Saves and Spell Slots, again, your ability scores provide the randomness and variability. The exception to this is the most generic stat, BAB. However, if you want to use this stat, it is used in Melee - in which case your Strength provides the variability - or as a Ranged attack - in which case Dexterity does the job.

Hopefully, you can see that the variability and randomness has been added in already. To put further vartiability based on some unknown random factor does not make much sense.

Sorry to paste your idea.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Hypersmurf]

Given a choice of having a good AC because of credible instances - such as good dex - versus some unknown random factor is obvious, of clarity and more importantly, fair. As you can see, the randomness - of Dexterity - has been taken into account and is the main "variability" for AC.

And yet it's possible for the Ftr-10 with 18 Con to have fewer hit points than the Ftr-10 with 10 Con.

It may be unlikely, but how is it that you cannot give the example "As you can see, the randomness - of Constitution - has been taken into account and is the main 'variability' for Hit Points"?

-Hyp.

 

[karateka]

You could use other HP generation methods.
Wizards could roll d4
Rogues, bards d4 + 2
clerics, druids, monks d4 + 4
and warrior types d4 + 6
this would give more hp to fighting types on average.
Or you could use a set HP system.

 

[Steve Jung]

Ok, this may sound weird, but I'm trying to show the weirdness (wrongwordiknow) of randomly determining 2 permanent aspects of characters' abilities and not the other aspects.

If you roll dice for stats and HPs... ... then you shound also roll dice for...

• d20 for the base number in AC (+d20, rolled once and kept forever, instead of just +10)
  /snip/

• 
  Well, on page 64 of the DMG, there is a variant rule for this—Defense Roll. Basically adding one's defense modifiers to a d20 roll, every round.

 

[Christian]

As a dyed-in-the-wool user of random chargen, all I have to say is

There. I feel better now.

Seriously, I don't understand the problem. Are you suggesting that every attack roll should be presumed to be 10 plus the character's attack bonus? After all, anything else is introducing randomness into the system-can't have that! Same with skills-after all, ultimately, either you can do something or you can't. Right?

Some things in your system will be random, and some will not. I personally like random ability generation a lot-it makes for a lot more interesting variation in characters, and its a bit more like real life. Everyone has different levels of natural abilities, and life ain't 'fair' in handing them out. (Not everyone who is less intelligent than I is stronger or more charismatic to compensate.) I actually prefer the 'organic' method in the DMG, but I've never been able to sell it to a gaming group.

For hit points, I'm a lot less sold on rolling. In my current game, I give the players a choice of rolling or taking half maximum when levelling up. I may well 86 hit point rolling altogether in the future ...