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Message: <blockquote data-quote="S'mon" data-source="post: 4917490" data-attributes="member: 463">"The threat that orcs should represent"?!  Why not orc drudges, then?  And how do you know what threat orcs should represent in my campaign?IMC, these orcs were Orc Warriors because they were particularly highly trained but nonheroic orcs.  Most orcs IMC would be Orc Drudges (minion 3).  For humanoids I use non-minion stats mostly for leaders, champions, heroes and others who don't fall down with one hit.  In any case, if I had made them into Orc Berserkers & Raiders, then instead of a fun, fast fight & flee, it would have ground  on for an hour,  because it seemed 'balanced' the players probably wouldn't have known to withdraw, and there'd eventually have been a TPK as more and more orcs arrived*.  Edit: As it was, going into the Underdark and encountering 9th level minions was an effective sign that this part of the sandbox was too tough for them, for now, so they knew to withdraw swiftly and plot to return later.Edit:  My orc warriors do 9 damage (weapon 5, +3 STR, +1 heavy blade focus) - many MM1 minions do too little damage as listed IMO - and I gave 50 XP per orc killed.*Orc berserkers are statted very differently from minions, and I play them according to their stats.  Berserkers can and would rush in and start swinging, they'll stick around while their friends come up later.  Whereas because these orcs were mostly non-heroic minions, they took time to muster their forces before the overwhelming counter-attack.  The PCs had killed 6 guards at the lair entrance and had assumed a defensive formation.  They could hear the orcs mustering deeper in the caves; the war-drums and the stomp of dozens of orc-feet, before the solid mass of dozens of orc warriors came into view, bearing down on them.  At which point they ran for it, nearly losing the one PC who rolled low on init.</blockquote>

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