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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Erekose13" data-source="post: 4538895" data-attributes="member: 3387">That is actually a key difference in 4e. With the economy of actions and a tighter tactical combat system, failing an attack in 4e can have a direct negative impact on your companions.  Its hard to see without playing a bit beyond 1st, but in the Keep on Shadowfell game I played (till a tpk)  the last battle was a great example of poor planning and bad rolling means disaster for every one.You are correct about failed aid rolls do not count against the challenge.I understand where you are coming from on the stylistic area too. This one is harder to work against.  The issue comes down to player and dm creativity and expressing that when making a roll. Even in combat its better to say "I lunge forward with my sword, slicing into the orc's bare chest and leave an angry red line of blood." than "I attack and hit the orc.".  The same now applies to skill rolls where it didn't always before, especially in social situation.  But the system now encourages all players to participate. Where in 3.5 this exact skill challenge (convince the council) or the next one (intimidate the hob) would've involved a lot of back and forth roleplaying it likely would've been concentrated on those character who had invested in social skills (bluff/diplo/intimidate) or characters with high cha.  In a recent skill challenge in another game, my character was making insight rolls only. The DM resolved that if it was going to count as a success, my character had to impart the knowledge he gained on the other characters. This is a great example of taking it further and using this system to involve everyone and beef up the roleplaying.</blockquote>

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