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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
I'll say one thing for 4E... It is more accessible.
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<blockquote data-quote="Lizard" data-source="post: 4286834" data-attributes="member: 1054"><p>Whereas one of the people in my group is put off by the fact he can't make an "interesting" (non-standard) character, that, basically, character building is done for him.</p><p></p><p>His comment was "It's like playing Magic using only pre-built decks."</p><p></p><p>It's a good point.</p><p></p><p>In D&D, the tactical focus has shifted from "deck building" to "deck playing" -- you have more choices on the field and fewer choices off. For some people, this is a win. For others, it's a lose. For a lot of gamers -- the people who WOTC wants to sell to -- *character building is a game in itself*. We're the people who spent hours designing starships in Traveller, heroes in Champions, etc. Excising the builder/tinkerer audience from the game may or may not be a good marketing move, depending on how popular that playstyle is. This isn't about "power gaming" or "munchkining", it's about having fun playing with the system to see what you can do with it, about coming up with a concept and then making it work according to the rules. 4e says, "Here are your concepts. Pick one." Customization is very limited; boolean skills, small selections of powers, etc. While some 3x classes are now a lot more customizable -- Paladins, for example -- most are less. Clerics lack Domains (and most of their spells), Wizards lack specialization, fighter builds are greatly restricted (no more brawlers, fencers, or knights, for instance), rangers no longer have favored enemy, no one has pets/companions, etc.</p><p></p><p>"But now no one sucks!"</p><p></p><p>Perhaps. But no one is special, unique, or interesting, either. And if playing a character who feels like one-of-a-kind isn't one of the main edges D&D has over MMORPGS, what is?</p><p></p><p>"Personality isn't mechanics!"</p><p></p><p>Yeah, and you can give your Night Elf Hunter all the personality you want in WoW; mechanically, he's still the same as anyone else following the flavor-of-the-month build, wearing the same armor, etc. Good game design has mechanics reflect personality, turning it into something which comes into actual play.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lizard, post: 4286834, member: 1054"] Whereas one of the people in my group is put off by the fact he can't make an "interesting" (non-standard) character, that, basically, character building is done for him. His comment was "It's like playing Magic using only pre-built decks." It's a good point. In D&D, the tactical focus has shifted from "deck building" to "deck playing" -- you have more choices on the field and fewer choices off. For some people, this is a win. For others, it's a lose. For a lot of gamers -- the people who WOTC wants to sell to -- *character building is a game in itself*. We're the people who spent hours designing starships in Traveller, heroes in Champions, etc. Excising the builder/tinkerer audience from the game may or may not be a good marketing move, depending on how popular that playstyle is. This isn't about "power gaming" or "munchkining", it's about having fun playing with the system to see what you can do with it, about coming up with a concept and then making it work according to the rules. 4e says, "Here are your concepts. Pick one." Customization is very limited; boolean skills, small selections of powers, etc. While some 3x classes are now a lot more customizable -- Paladins, for example -- most are less. Clerics lack Domains (and most of their spells), Wizards lack specialization, fighter builds are greatly restricted (no more brawlers, fencers, or knights, for instance), rangers no longer have favored enemy, no one has pets/companions, etc. "But now no one sucks!" Perhaps. But no one is special, unique, or interesting, either. And if playing a character who feels like one-of-a-kind isn't one of the main edges D&D has over MMORPGS, what is? "Personality isn't mechanics!" Yeah, and you can give your Night Elf Hunter all the personality you want in WoW; mechanically, he's still the same as anyone else following the flavor-of-the-month build, wearing the same armor, etc. Good game design has mechanics reflect personality, turning it into something which comes into actual play. [/QUOTE]
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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
I'll say one thing for 4E... It is more accessible.
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