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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Pbartender" data-source="post: 4292762" data-attributes="member: 7533">Allow me to expand on LostSouls' example...How Not To Be Seen, An Elf Rogue in 4E:Out Of Combat:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Stealth, trained: +5</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Skill Focus feat: +3</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Light Step feat: +1</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Skillful Infiltrator (11th level Paragon Path feature): +2</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Secret Stride feat: No penalties to Stealth, when moving full speed.</li> </ul>Total bonus +11, not including your Dexterity modifier.Assuming we purchase a Dexterity of 18, we gain an additional +2 from being an Elf, for a starting Dexterity bonus of +5. By the time we gain 11th level (which is the soonest we can aquire all the abilities listed above), we can raise Dexterity by another +3, for a total score of 23, and a bonus of +6.So, at Level 11, we have a Stealth Skill of +22.  Another party member, untrained in Stealth and with no other feats or abilities to enhance it, would have a Stealth check of +5, not including their Dexterity modifier.At 30th Level, if you kept pumping up Dexterity, your Stealth check would be +35 (+11 bonuses, +9 Dex, +15 Level).Also, In Combat:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fleeting Ghost, Rogue Utility 2, At-Will, Move: Move your speed and make a Stealth check, no penalty for movement.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Chameleon, Rogue Utility 6, At-Will, Imm Int: When you lose cover or concealment when hiding, make a Stealth check to stay hidden.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Shadow Stride, Rogue Utility 10, At-Will, Move: When hiding, move your speed. If you have cover at the end of that movement, make a Stealth check with no penalty for movement. If successful, you stay hidden while moving.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Hide in Plain Sight, Rogue Utility 16, Encounter, Move: When hidden, you areinvisible until you leave your square. No other action makes you visible.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Hide from the Light, Rogue Utility 22, Daily, Minor: When hidden, you are invisible until the end of the encounter or until you move more than 2 squares or use any attack other than a basic attack or an at-will attack.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Ghost on the Wind, Rogue Attack 25, Daily, Standard: On a hit, deal lots of damage, move to any square adjacent to the enemy, and become invisible until the start of your next turn.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Impossible to Catch, Master Infiltrator Ultility 12, Encounter, Minor: Become invisible until the start of your next turn.</li> </ul>That's not too shabby, especially for using just the 4E PHB.By contrast, using only the 3.5 PHB, aside from maxing out your Dexterity, and maxing out Hide and Move Silently as Class skills, you'd get a bonus for being Small-sized, there was the Stealthy feat, the Skill Focus feat (take it twice, once for each skill), Camouflage (Ranger, 13th), and Hide in Plain Sight (Ranger 17th).Rogues had no options at all for special abilities involving stealth, aside from those two feats that give flat bonuses.</blockquote>

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