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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kobold Stew" data-source="post: 9669578" data-attributes="member: 23484">Because you quoted it.This sounds to me like you are being sarcastic.I want rules that work at the table, yes. And, yes, I offered a proposal that cites the PHB. It's not a coincidence that the proposal follows from the passages cited. Your interpretation, as you've explained it, does not explain the repeated emphasis in the spell descriptions. And that's fair, since you believe illusions are "mostly meant to be out of combat spells". My post  specifically described only in-combat uses.If this view is correct, then the spell descriptions state a way to counter illusions that has a substantial chance of failure, but there is an implicit way to counter illusions that will always succeed. Further, the experts in illusion magic (Wizards) never approach the ability to counter illusions that an Int 8 Champion Fighter of equal level possesses. And the DC associated with a given illusion is seldom if ever relevant. You may believe that is what is intended by the rules, but for me it points to an issue that warrants discussion. I can think of many ways that illusion rules might be fixed at the table (and others in this thread have suggested some), and I know that I have played with my own house rules (not those here) the few times illusions have come up in games I've run. But for the most part, they don't come up, because the spells aren't used, and I think part of the reason is precisely the problem I'm trying to think through.</blockquote>

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