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General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
"Illusionism" and "GM force" in RPGing
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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7921414" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>Well, no, because doing so does not alter or block player inputs but rather feeds on them. This is an example of the GM using their judgement and having authority to introduce content, not Force.</p><p></p><p>This may be Force, but not for the reasons that the GM used a hard move to introduce new fiction. Instead, this may be Force if the introduction of the dog is outside the genre/assumptions of the game. In these games, the GM isn't fully free to introduce scene framing elements but rather constrained to introduce elements that align with the player's intended action. So, if introducing a dog is within genre and not against player established constraints, then this is fine. If it is, there's a problem already, and it will be immediately apparent. Similarly, if dogs turning into tentacled horrors is in genre and within the constraints of the player action failing, then it's fine. If it's not, there's a problem and it will be immediately apparent.</p><p></p><p>For example, your above would be perfectly fine in a Cthulhu themed game as it fits all of the genre points and introducing of tentacled beast is well within expectations of player action failures. It's not cool in a game about high school drama surrounding who's popular (there's a game like this). If you introduce things outside of the genre and player established constraints, then there's a problem AND it's apparent. If you do it inside, then this isn't Force, it's acceptable content introduction by the GM.</p><p></p><p>Notably, Force isn't adding things the GM likes, it's subverting player input to cause things the GM likes. If the GM couldn't add things, ever, we'd be in a world of boring.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 7921414, member: 16814"] Well, no, because doing so does not alter or block player inputs but rather feeds on them. This is an example of the GM using their judgement and having authority to introduce content, not Force. This may be Force, but not for the reasons that the GM used a hard move to introduce new fiction. Instead, this may be Force if the introduction of the dog is outside the genre/assumptions of the game. In these games, the GM isn't fully free to introduce scene framing elements but rather constrained to introduce elements that align with the player's intended action. So, if introducing a dog is within genre and not against player established constraints, then this is fine. If it is, there's a problem already, and it will be immediately apparent. Similarly, if dogs turning into tentacled horrors is in genre and within the constraints of the player action failing, then it's fine. If it's not, there's a problem and it will be immediately apparent. For example, your above would be perfectly fine in a Cthulhu themed game as it fits all of the genre points and introducing of tentacled beast is well within expectations of player action failures. It's not cool in a game about high school drama surrounding who's popular (there's a game like this). If you introduce things outside of the genre and player established constraints, then there's a problem AND it's apparent. If you do it inside, then this isn't Force, it's acceptable content introduction by the GM. Notably, Force isn't adding things the GM likes, it's subverting player input to cause things the GM likes. If the GM couldn't add things, ever, we'd be in a world of boring. [/QUOTE]
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