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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7923516" data-attributes="member: 42582">This is not true.To recap from the OP, here is how I have characterised GM force, using the Traveller Book as my canonical source: gentle guidance or manipulation, by the GM, to a fore-ordained goal.Deliberately narrating that the PCs in a dungeon find a secret door - an example canvassed by Gygax in his DMG - may be force in this sense, though barely so: by making the secret door salient the GM gently guides the PCs to make a particular choice, of going to a particular placer in the dungeon.Here is a passage from the Burning Wheel revised rulebook, p 109:If one of your [PC's] relationships is your wife in the village, the GM is supposed to use this to create situations in play. If you're hunting a vampire, of course it's your wife who is his victim! Suddenly, you're swept up in a plot of terror and intrigue.That's not neutral GMing, but it is not force. There is no guidance or manipulation by the GM to a fore-ordained goal. It's about framing, not outcomes/resolution.Until you say something about what A, B and C are, this is too abstract to say much about.But, in the abstract, this looks like it will require force. If the players, when their PCs are framed into situation A, are not guided or manipulated to a fore-ordained goal, then what guarantee is there that situation B will follow from the established fiction?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7923516, member: 42582"] This is not true. To recap from the OP, here is how I have characterised GM force, using the Traveller Book as my canonical source: [I] gentle guidance or manipulation, by the GM, to a fore-ordained goal[/I]. Deliberately narrating that the PCs in a dungeon find a secret door - an example canvassed by Gygax in his DMG - may be force in this sense, though barely so: by making the secret door salient the GM gently guides the PCs to make a particular choice, of going to a particular placer in the dungeon. Here is a passage from the Burning Wheel revised rulebook, p 109: [indent]If one of your [PC's] relationships is your wife in the village, the GM is supposed to use this to create situations in play. If you're hunting a vampire, of course it's your wife who is his victim! Suddenly, you're swept up in a plot of terror and intrigue.[/indent] That's not neutral GMing, but it is not force. There is no guidance or manipulation by the GM to a fore-ordained goal. It's about [I]framing[/I], not outcomes/resolution. Until you say something about what A, B and C are, this is too abstract to say much about. But, in the abstract, this looks like it will require force. If the players, when their PCs are framed into situation A, are not guided or manipulated to a fore-ordained goal, then what guarantee is there that situation B will follow from the established fiction? [/QUOTE]

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