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"Illusionism" and "GM force" in RPGing
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7923552" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>Not in my view. I think the notion of <em>GM guidance and/or manipulation to a fore-ordained goal </em>does the job.</p><p></p><p>This overlaps with [USER=6696971]@Manbearcat[/USER]'s characterisation in part: <em>fore-ordained goal </em>is roughly synonymous with <em>GM-envisioned narrative</em>.</p><p></p><p>But it differs from @Manbeacat's characterisation in part: it uses a general notion of <em>guidance and/or manipulation </em>without further stipulating that this must <em>nullify or modify player input</em>.</p><p></p><p>Contra [USER=16814]@Ovinomancer[/USER], this difference does not pertain to moments vs arcs of play: <em>guidance to a fore-ordained outcome </em>can be attributed to a particular moment of play (like the Gygax secret door example) just as much as <em>manipulation of the gamestate to establish or maintain a GM-envisioned narrative</em>. Which is no surprise, given the rough synonymy of the italicised phrases.</p><p></p><p>The difference is that <em>modifying or nullifying player input</em> happens at a certain point of the action resolution process, namely, downstream from the player input in question. Whereas <em>guiding or manipulating towards a goal</em> can occur upstream of player input into action resolution, that is, <em>in the process of framing</em>. Which is what is happening in the DL case (strong manipulation) and the secret door case (barest of guidance).</p><p></p><p>I think this is putting me slightly at odds with [USER=99817]@chaochou[/USER] above, which always worries me because he's a better analyst of RPGing than I am! In the DL example I believe that the GM is exercising authority that the rulebooks and module confer - the GM has authority to frame those encounters. I also think that the GM is exercising force, because s/he is manipulating the trajectory of play towards a fore-ordained goal.</p><p></p><p>In the Gygax wandering monster case, I think - for the reasons I've given - no force is being exercised (and as I posted not far upthread I think my characterisation and [USER=6696971]@Manbearcat[/USER]'s characterisation produce the same conclusion in this respect). But the GM is pushing the limits of authority, because suspending what presents itself as a mandated procedure by appeal to a much more vaguely and waffly-worded permission to wield overwhelming power. But I think that's mostly because Gygax wasn't a terribly good writer of rules. I think that the wanderming monster system could be rewritten more clearly (maybe using the Apocalpyse World presentation of clocks as a starting point) to both state its purpose (it's about punishing bad play that wastes time and creates noise, with a simulationist side-effect of presenting dungeon ecology) and then explain why, if that purpose is not being served due to unlikely rolls vs a group playing skillfully, the clock can be temporarily suspended. That would make it clearer that it's not force and also make it clearer how the GM is meant to do it without breaking the rules.</p><p></p><p>Of course this requires a GM to exercise judgement. But that's an unremarkable feature of a traditional RPG and not especially related to the notion of force.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7923552, member: 42582"] Not in my view. I think the notion of [I]GM guidance and/or manipulation to a fore-ordained goal [/I]does the job. This overlaps with [USER=6696971]@Manbearcat[/USER]'s characterisation in part: [I]fore-ordained goal [/I]is roughly synonymous with [I]GM-envisioned narrative[/I]. But it differs from @Manbeacat's characterisation in part: it uses a general notion of [I]guidance and/or manipulation [/I]without further stipulating that this must [I]nullify or modify player input[/I]. Contra [USER=16814]@Ovinomancer[/USER], this difference does not pertain to moments vs arcs of play: [I]guidance to a fore-ordained outcome [/I]can be attributed to a particular moment of play (like the Gygax secret door example) just as much as [I]manipulation of the gamestate to establish or maintain a GM-envisioned narrative[/I]. Which is no surprise, given the rough synonymy of the italicised phrases. The difference is that [I]modifying or nullifying player input[/I] happens at a certain point of the action resolution process, namely, downstream from the player input in question. Whereas [I]guiding or manipulating towards a goal[/I] can occur upstream of player input into action resolution, that is, [I]in the process of framing[/I]. Which is what is happening in the DL case (strong manipulation) and the secret door case (barest of guidance). I think this is putting me slightly at odds with [USER=99817]@chaochou[/USER] above, which always worries me because he's a better analyst of RPGing than I am! In the DL example I believe that the GM is exercising authority that the rulebooks and module confer - the GM has authority to frame those encounters. I also think that the GM is exercising force, because s/he is manipulating the trajectory of play towards a fore-ordained goal. In the Gygax wandering monster case, I think - for the reasons I've given - no force is being exercised (and as I posted not far upthread I think my characterisation and [USER=6696971]@Manbearcat[/USER]'s characterisation produce the same conclusion in this respect). But the GM is pushing the limits of authority, because suspending what presents itself as a mandated procedure by appeal to a much more vaguely and waffly-worded permission to wield overwhelming power. But I think that's mostly because Gygax wasn't a terribly good writer of rules. I think that the wanderming monster system could be rewritten more clearly (maybe using the Apocalpyse World presentation of clocks as a starting point) to both state its purpose (it's about punishing bad play that wastes time and creates noise, with a simulationist side-effect of presenting dungeon ecology) and then explain why, if that purpose is not being served due to unlikely rolls vs a group playing skillfully, the clock can be temporarily suspended. That would make it clearer that it's not force and also make it clearer how the GM is meant to do it without breaking the rules. Of course this requires a GM to exercise judgement. But that's an unremarkable feature of a traditional RPG and not especially related to the notion of force. [/QUOTE]
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