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"Illusionism" and "GM force" in RPGing
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7923574" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>That's the point on which I've identified a difference of characterisation. Under a different analysis from mine, you might establish an extensional equivalence of the two (non-synonymous) characterisations.</p><p></p><p>When what you say here is brought into contact with Gygax's discussion of wandering monsters, one thing is missing - the "megadungeon". (I don't know Torchbearer and so can't comment; but in Luke Crane's Moldvay play that led to it I think he played only modules, not "megadungeons.)</p><p></p><p>In the traditional (mega)dungeon, which is what Gygax talks about in his PHB under Successful Adventures, and is also what he is referring to on p 9 of his DMG, the PCs have to move through "cleaned"/explored bits of the dungeon to get to the new bits that they are exploring. This movement is <em>inevitable</em>, even for the most skilled players; and it therefore generates wandering monster rolls. What Gygax is noticing is that even a very skill group of players who have to move through a fair bit of dungeon can get unlucky on those rolls and hence get hosed by wanderers and never actually get to deploy or show off their skill.</p><p></p><p>It's essentially a problem for framing: the fictional conceits combined with the "clock" process mean that every group, regardless of skill of play, has a random chance of suffering a hosing. In principle the best way to deal with this would be to fix the clocks (simply changing probabilities won't help, because the chance of hosing will still always be there). But that's tricky, especially given the conceits of the fiction (a well-known somewhat analogous thing is the "amber mist" at the end of each session of X2, which allows the PCs to recuperate without actually leaving the dungeon - and it's a pretty flagrant device!).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7923574, member: 42582"] That's the point on which I've identified a difference of characterisation. Under a different analysis from mine, you might establish an extensional equivalence of the two (non-synonymous) characterisations. When what you say here is brought into contact with Gygax's discussion of wandering monsters, one thing is missing - the "megadungeon". (I don't know Torchbearer and so can't comment; but in Luke Crane's Moldvay play that led to it I think he played only modules, not "megadungeons.) In the traditional (mega)dungeon, which is what Gygax talks about in his PHB under Successful Adventures, and is also what he is referring to on p 9 of his DMG, the PCs have to move through "cleaned"/explored bits of the dungeon to get to the new bits that they are exploring. This movement is [I]inevitable[/I], even for the most skilled players; and it therefore generates wandering monster rolls. What Gygax is noticing is that even a very skill group of players who have to move through a fair bit of dungeon can get unlucky on those rolls and hence get hosed by wanderers and never actually get to deploy or show off their skill. It's essentially a problem for framing: the fictional conceits combined with the "clock" process mean that every group, regardless of skill of play, has a random chance of suffering a hosing. In principle the best way to deal with this would be to fix the clocks (simply changing probabilities won't help, because the chance of hosing will still always be there). But that's tricky, especially given the conceits of the fiction (a well-known somewhat analogous thing is the "amber mist" at the end of each session of X2, which allows the PCs to recuperate without actually leaving the dungeon - and it's a pretty flagrant device!). [/QUOTE]
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