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Illusionism: Where Do You Stand?
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<blockquote data-quote="GrahamWills" data-source="post: 9081828" data-attributes="member: 75787"><p>I thought we might have a gap of three months before the next illusionism == railroading == bad thread. I guess not.</p><p></p><p>For me, illusionism is bad for a completely different reason. It says that the GM doesn't trust the players and wants to deceive them. It's bad because it breaks trust, not because it railroads.</p><p></p><p>As an example, suppose I start a session with a combat against a werewolf. I get close to resolution and then cut the scene off with a "24 hours earlier..." interjection. Now there's a number of ways this could go:</p><ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Players rebel because it takes away their agency and they are being "railroaded" into a scene against their will. This has never happened to me and I can't recall anyone saying it has to them, but despite this being a staple of book, tv series, movies, films, plays etc. it's always brought up as an example of railroading. If that's you, probably best to ignore the rest of this post</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">GM presents a railroad, forcing players to go through set scenes to get to the inevitable end. This might be fun, but I've always preferred games where players get to make choices, so this is not my cup of team</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">GM presents choices, but they are mostly meaningless. This is essentially the same as (2) with the added insult of the GM effectively lying to the players. I'd prefer simple railroading, myself.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">GM trusts the players to take actions themselves that allow them to get to the endpoint. If the GM thinks a course of action will make that impossible, she says so and everyone collaborates to get to the ending. No illusionism, no railroading -- this is my preferred way of working.</li> </ol><p>To repeat; Illusionism is bad because it breaks trust. It also has this very old-school vibe of GM-versus-players, and it can only be needed if the players and GM are in a strong non-narrative mode where they only every talk about what is realistic and what the rules say and never about the story. </p><p></p><p>If you trust your players and talk about the story, you never need Illusionism. You don't offer them a pair of heels and a pair of Birkenstocks and only accept the latter. You DEFINITELY don't offer both and kick them out of the kingdom no matter which they choose. You just trust them to get kicked out of the kingdom via their own choices.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="GrahamWills, post: 9081828, member: 75787"] I thought we might have a gap of three months before the next illusionism == railroading == bad thread. I guess not. For me, illusionism is bad for a completely different reason. It says that the GM doesn't trust the players and wants to deceive them. It's bad because it breaks trust, not because it railroads. As an example, suppose I start a session with a combat against a werewolf. I get close to resolution and then cut the scene off with a "24 hours earlier..." interjection. Now there's a number of ways this could go: [LIST=1] [*]Players rebel because it takes away their agency and they are being "railroaded" into a scene against their will. This has never happened to me and I can't recall anyone saying it has to them, but despite this being a staple of book, tv series, movies, films, plays etc. it's always brought up as an example of railroading. If that's you, probably best to ignore the rest of this post [*]GM presents a railroad, forcing players to go through set scenes to get to the inevitable end. This might be fun, but I've always preferred games where players get to make choices, so this is not my cup of team [*]GM presents choices, but they are mostly meaningless. This is essentially the same as (2) with the added insult of the GM effectively lying to the players. I'd prefer simple railroading, myself. [*]GM trusts the players to take actions themselves that allow them to get to the endpoint. If the GM thinks a course of action will make that impossible, she says so and everyone collaborates to get to the ending. No illusionism, no railroading -- this is my preferred way of working. [/LIST] To repeat; Illusionism is bad because it breaks trust. It also has this very old-school vibe of GM-versus-players, and it can only be needed if the players and GM are in a strong non-narrative mode where they only every talk about what is realistic and what the rules say and never about the story. If you trust your players and talk about the story, you never need Illusionism. You don't offer them a pair of heels and a pair of Birkenstocks and only accept the latter. You DEFINITELY don't offer both and kick them out of the kingdom no matter which they choose. You just trust them to get kicked out of the kingdom via their own choices. [/QUOTE]
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