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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 9085094" data-attributes="member: 6696971">See below.&nbsp; It isn't what billd91 has haphazardly thrown out there.This is a ridiculous inference and a pretty outrageous imputation of motive onto me that is utterly unsupportable.&nbsp; Seriously.We're simply talking about the concept of work; energy transferred to an object by way of an application of force.&nbsp; In TTRPGs, its the GM applying force to the gamestate and/or/both the attendant state of the fiction in a manner/by a means which subordinates player's or system's rightful input. Now someone might say &quot;a system has no rightful input so a GM can't suspend&nbsp; system's rightful input&quot; or &quot;a player has no rightful input so a GM can't suspend a player's rightful input.&quot;&nbsp; Effectively saying &quot;every input onto play to propel it is the purview of the GM and the GM only and that GM can then choose to give (or veto) system or player input at their discretion.&quot;&nbsp; Yup, that is a thing a person could say to deny that &quot;GM Force (covert or overt)&quot; is a thing.&nbsp; But now we're having a fundamentally different conversation in totally different territory.&nbsp; Pretty damn controversial territory so I hope the person making that statement is prepared for some pushback from a whole lot of directions in the TTRPG-osphere.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 9085094, member: 6696971"] See below. It isn't what billd91 has haphazardly thrown out there. This is a ridiculous inference and a pretty outrageous imputation of motive onto me that is utterly unsupportable. Seriously. We're simply talking about the concept of work; energy transferred to an object by way of an application of force. In TTRPGs, its the GM applying force to the gamestate and/or/both the attendant state of the fiction in a manner/by a means which subordinates player's or system's rightful input. Now someone might say "a system has no rightful input so a GM can't suspend system's rightful input" or "a player has no rightful input so a GM can't suspend a player's rightful input." Effectively saying "every input onto play to propel it is the [B]purview of the GM and the GM only[/B] and that GM can then choose to give (or veto) system or player input at their discretion." Yup, that is a thing a person could say to deny that "GM Force (covert or overt)" is a thing. But now we're having a fundamentally different conversation in totally different territory. Pretty damn controversial territory so I hope the person making that statement is prepared for some pushback from a whole lot of directions in the TTRPG-osphere. [/QUOTE]

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