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<blockquote data-quote="Uller" data-source="post: 330272" data-attributes="member: 413">The SRD regarding illusions and saves:Most illusions (especially figments and phantasms) included text in their short or long descriptions that indicates characters receive a save if they interact with it.Invisibility and Silence are both illusions (glamers) and make no mention of any saving throw.&nbsp; So...if you interact with an invisible creature, do you get a save?&nbsp; If you are in the area of a silence and realize that something is wrong, do you get a save?I say no.&nbsp; Glamers should not allow any save.&nbsp; They change the subject's (i.e. the invisible or silenced characters) sensory qualities (the light or sound coming from them) and do not affect the perceptions of those around them.&nbsp; You can try to disbelieve all you want, it won't change the fact that no light or no sound is getting to you from the subject.&nbsp; This is how I've always run it, but a player of mine pointed out this passage the other day and I didn't have the ammo to argue with him (not that I changed my ruling...I just said &quot;You don't get to disbelieve invisibility...you can make a spot check vs DC 20+ to guess where the invisible creature is&quot; and he seemed satisfied with that).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Uller, post: 330272, member: 413"] The SRD regarding illusions and saves: Most illusions (especially figments and phantasms) included text in their short or long descriptions that indicates characters receive a save if they interact with it. Invisibility and Silence are both illusions (glamers) and make no mention of any saving throw. So...if you interact with an invisible creature, do you get a save? If you are in the area of a silence and realize that something is wrong, do you get a save? I say no. Glamers should not allow any save. They change the subject's (i.e. the invisible or silenced characters) sensory qualities (the light or sound coming from them) and do not affect the perceptions of those around them. You can try to disbelieve all you want, it won't change the fact that no light or no sound is getting to you from the subject. This is how I've always run it, but a player of mine pointed out this passage the other day and I didn't have the ammo to argue with him (not that I changed my ruling...I just said "You don't get to disbelieve invisibility...you can make a spot check vs DC 20+ to guess where the invisible creature is" and he seemed satisfied with that). [/QUOTE]

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