Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Illusions, lighting, and reflectance
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Laurefindel" data-source="post: 7548177" data-attributes="member: 67296"><p>Agreed</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Agreed again</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Agreed. However, I doubt that in a room full of furniture, a chair that doesn't cast a shadow would be that obvious at first sight. After a successful investigation check, yes it would, but that what the investigation check is for.</p><p></p><p>But assuming a minor image cantrip, there is enough space in the AoE to include a shadow. Except it will be the appearance of a shadow, like the ground will be of a darker shade there, but the amount of light would be unchanged.</p><p></p><p>We see it all the time in trompe-l'œil paintings, or the street art that is designed to create an optical illusion.</p><p></p><p>Could a character find something weird about the chair and its shadow by observing how light react with it? Perhaps, enough to warrant a INT save, but it won't be noticeable by casually walking by it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If it was the only object in a white room, yes it would be obvious. However, this is rarely the case, and I doubt anyone would casually notice. If they start looking for telltale signs of illusions, they'll probably have a lower DC on their investigation check. And if the caster wants to be safe, use a silent image spell instead. The 15' cube ought to be enough for most situations. Minor image is, after all, just a cantrip. It's ok if that spell isn't 100% foolproof.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Oh I know, that's why I said it's better to leave real-life physics out of magical effects. You have acknowledged that as the first sentence of your post.</p><p></p><p>The same that goes for shadows is also true for reflections. The illusory item appears to be lit just like a real item would, with lighter highlights, just like in a trompe-l'œil painting or optical illusion. An illusionary mirror would show your reflection if you looked into it, but it wouldn't bounce the light of your torch on the ceiling, unless the ceiling is within the area of effect. Again, the minor illusion spell has its limitations, its a cantrip. A 15' cube silently image has a better chance of being a better illusion. I'm ok with that.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It doesn't have to be a physical manifestation. It just has to be a magically manifestation. Illusions are intangible, therefore cannot reflect light (and thus would be invisible) with our conception of physics. If they could reflect or block light, they would necessarily need to be tangible. (perhaps bringing its own set of telltale signs?) I wouldn't have a big issue with that if it weren't for the fact that once you succeed on you INT save, the physical qualities of the illusory item changes (if only in opacity) for you but not fo those who didn't succeed. It's that quantum state that troubles me. Illusions, as described in D&D, cannot be reconciled with physics, they are going to break its laws in one way or another. Hence the incistance on the magical element of magic spells.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Laurefindel, post: 7548177, member: 67296"] Agreed Agreed again Agreed. However, I doubt that in a room full of furniture, a chair that doesn't cast a shadow would be that obvious at first sight. After a successful investigation check, yes it would, but that what the investigation check is for. But assuming a minor image cantrip, there is enough space in the AoE to include a shadow. Except it will be the appearance of a shadow, like the ground will be of a darker shade there, but the amount of light would be unchanged. We see it all the time in trompe-l'œil paintings, or the street art that is designed to create an optical illusion. Could a character find something weird about the chair and its shadow by observing how light react with it? Perhaps, enough to warrant a INT save, but it won't be noticeable by casually walking by it. If it was the only object in a white room, yes it would be obvious. However, this is rarely the case, and I doubt anyone would casually notice. If they start looking for telltale signs of illusions, they'll probably have a lower DC on their investigation check. And if the caster wants to be safe, use a silent image spell instead. The 15' cube ought to be enough for most situations. Minor image is, after all, just a cantrip. It's ok if that spell isn't 100% foolproof. Oh I know, that's why I said it's better to leave real-life physics out of magical effects. You have acknowledged that as the first sentence of your post. The same that goes for shadows is also true for reflections. The illusory item appears to be lit just like a real item would, with lighter highlights, just like in a trompe-l'œil painting or optical illusion. An illusionary mirror would show your reflection if you looked into it, but it wouldn't bounce the light of your torch on the ceiling, unless the ceiling is within the area of effect. Again, the minor illusion spell has its limitations, its a cantrip. A 15' cube silently image has a better chance of being a better illusion. I'm ok with that. It doesn't have to be a physical manifestation. It just has to be a magically manifestation. Illusions are intangible, therefore cannot reflect light (and thus would be invisible) with our conception of physics. If they could reflect or block light, they would necessarily need to be tangible. (perhaps bringing its own set of telltale signs?) I wouldn't have a big issue with that if it weren't for the fact that once you succeed on you INT save, the physical qualities of the illusory item changes (if only in opacity) for you but not fo those who didn't succeed. It's that quantum state that troubles me. Illusions, as described in D&D, cannot be reconciled with physics, they are going to break its laws in one way or another. Hence the incistance on the magical element of magic spells. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Illusions, lighting, and reflectance
Top