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<blockquote data-quote="Greenfield" data-source="post: 5966999" data-attributes="member: 6669384"><p>I'm personally guilty of twisting more than a few rules, so I'm not in any position to complain.</p><p></p><p>And I really do understand your concern about pushing a DM who is all to willing to let you have your way. It seriously takes the challenge out, and thus the fun.</p><p></p><p>Technically, you could create a mob of people connected together by the simple fact that they're a mob, pressed into bodily contact.</p><p></p><p>In fact, I've done exactly this. (You'll find an example in one the adventure stories I posted to the Story Hour forum. I think it's in the <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/story-hour/324045-curse-darkness-vi-valley-sun.html" target="_blank">http://www.enworld.org/forum/story-hour/324045-curse-darkness-vi-valley-sun.html</a> thread. )</p><p></p><p>This was a case where I wasn't thinking about the limits, and instead just used the illusion to create "crowd cover", as a sort of <em>Mirror Image - Mass</em>.</p><p></p><p>And it's because of exactly that potential that I'm of the feeling that a DM should say no. </p><p></p><p>The progression you laid out is entirely reasonable. But add in two steps and, while it remains legal and reasonable, it becomes horribly abusive.</p><p></p><p>1) All the mannequins look like various members of the party.</p><p>2) Allow room in the crowd for the real party members, so the enemy can't tell which is real (and shooting at them) and which is the illusion.</p><p></p><p>The differences between this use and the fog cloud: </p><p></p><p>1) Your party members don't need to make a Save v this. They can see out just fine, first round and attack or act without delay.</p><p>2) The enemy has much worse than a 50/50 miss chance.</p><p></p><p>So while the scenario you propose may be technically legal (in that you can rationalize a way within the spell's limits), and you can certainly get a semi-pushover DM to approve it, the potential for abuse may rob you of some fun by removing challenge from the game.</p><p></p><p>Oh, and technically, a dozen or so mannequins is a dozen or so objects, connecting threads notwithstanding.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Greenfield, post: 5966999, member: 6669384"] I'm personally guilty of twisting more than a few rules, so I'm not in any position to complain. And I really do understand your concern about pushing a DM who is all to willing to let you have your way. It seriously takes the challenge out, and thus the fun. Technically, you could create a mob of people connected together by the simple fact that they're a mob, pressed into bodily contact. In fact, I've done exactly this. (You'll find an example in one the adventure stories I posted to the Story Hour forum. I think it's in the [url]http://www.enworld.org/forum/story-hour/324045-curse-darkness-vi-valley-sun.html[/url] thread. ) This was a case where I wasn't thinking about the limits, and instead just used the illusion to create "crowd cover", as a sort of [I]Mirror Image - Mass[/I]. And it's because of exactly that potential that I'm of the feeling that a DM should say no. The progression you laid out is entirely reasonable. But add in two steps and, while it remains legal and reasonable, it becomes horribly abusive. 1) All the mannequins look like various members of the party. 2) Allow room in the crowd for the real party members, so the enemy can't tell which is real (and shooting at them) and which is the illusion. The differences between this use and the fog cloud: 1) Your party members don't need to make a Save v this. They can see out just fine, first round and attack or act without delay. 2) The enemy has much worse than a 50/50 miss chance. So while the scenario you propose may be technically legal (in that you can rationalize a way within the spell's limits), and you can certainly get a semi-pushover DM to approve it, the potential for abuse may rob you of some fun by removing challenge from the game. Oh, and technically, a dozen or so mannequins is a dozen or so objects, connecting threads notwithstanding. [/QUOTE]
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