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Message: <blockquote data-quote="SpiralBound" data-source="post: 3032079" data-attributes="member: 8396">Hmmm... Consider the previous poster's guesswork on the ages...  It was based on the description of the players' behaviours.  I too was thinking, "a bunch of kids with maturity not on their side yet, give 'em a few years to grow up".  However, you're telling us that these are 30 year olds?  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" /> I was much more mature than what you described when I was in my teens and I'm willing to bet that many other posters here were too.  I wouldn't have put up with such selfish and childishly pouting behaviour from a 16 year old, let alone 30 year olds!! Their time to have "grown up" has come and gone! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> I commend you for your desire to encourage them to step up their roleplaying and also for wanting to preserve the peace by dropping the fighter in favour of the bard.  Sadly though I don't think that this will solve anything in the long-run.  The first time your bard uses charisma or bardic magic to convince an NPC to give information or aid the party, the Cleric will be mad at you cause you "stole" his opportunity to use his cleric magic or church related social influence to <s>bully</s> convince the NPC to cooperate, meanwhile the rogue will complain that he was "just about to" steal the info from the NPC when you "butted in and ruined everything"...  Any time these "heroes" aren't in the limelight will be just cause for them to complain.  Let me guess, in combat, they start whining to the GM when their hit points get dangerously low?  "Uh oh, I only have 3 hps. If I die, I'm outta here."  Are comments like "no fair!" used when the bad guys have the upper hand, but they gloat with glee whenever they sucker-punch or pull a fast one on the bad guys?  I suspect that they're both in favour of and blind to such double-standards, and that your GM is pulling punches a lot just to keep them in the game...I also strongly suspect that the other poster was in fact correct in guessing the ages of your problem players - he was just guessing their maturity levels, not their biological ages...  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool    :cool:"  data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" /> I do wish you the best of luck, but don't feel obligated to bend over backwards too many times just to please a couple of selfish and childish players who apparently never became adults.  :\  In the long run, such efforts are wasted on people like that.  They won't appreciate it, they won't change, and you'll only end up with a bitter taste in your mouth from having to dumb down your experience just to please a bunch of maturity-stunted, overgrown children.  You and the GM would be better off in letting them take their toys and leave when they don't get their own way.  Then you'll be free to recruit some players who want to join an actual group activity, not force a bunch of people to watch them (and only them) shine in glory...Here's hoping that I'm wrong and your players have hidden reserves of untapped and undeveloped personal potential just waiting for the right conditions to spring forward and grant them the "late bloom" of maturity that they so desparately need!  Just don't wait too long for that miracle to occur.</blockquote>

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