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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Spatzimaus" data-source="post: 492368" data-attributes="member: 3051">If you define "excel" as "deal the most damage per turn" then yes, but that's not the most important part of combat IMHO.It's a question of offense versus defense, or power versus flexibility.  If your character is optimized to do damage in one and only one way (archer, for example), and someone finds a way to make that problematic, you're out of options.  Look at all the ways you can keep archers from being effective: wind, darkness, cover, closing to melee range, or Protection from Arrows.  If they're not casting GMW all the time, their arrows will usually be low in magic, which makes DR a problem far more often than for melee types.Maybe you've got an archer that can deal out 200 points a turn, but if you're too busy fighting defensively or if you can't target the guy, that offense is useless, and you've sacrificed your defensive ability in the process.The most effective fighter-type I ever played was a Psychic Warrior.  She wouldn't outdamage the pure Fighters, although the difference was relatively minor.  She lost a little BAB, a little HP, and a Feat or two.On the other hand, she was practically impossible to take down.  Combat Precognition, Improved Biofeedback, Displacement, Inertial Barrier, Animal Affinity, and the Vigor series (post-errata) let her take far more damage than the Fighters could.Then, there were those "special circumstances" that are so common at high level.  Magical Darkness?  Vigilance.  Need to get past an obstacle?  Polymorph Self or Dimension Door.  Big dragon with huge AC?  Deep Impact.  Got ambushed while taking a bath so your weapon isn't near?  (Yes, it happened)  Call Weaponry.Taking the classic Fighter-Rogue-Wizard-Cleric party is fine, if you're playing Gauntlet.  Against a smart enemy in 3E, you'll spend a lot of time protecting the casters.  I've been in parties where we didn't have a single one of those classes, and the only one we missed was the Cleric.Anyway, back to the original topic: I agree with most of Petrosian's points.  But, to me it's not so much that a specialized archer is so good.  A specialized offensive player SHOULD be able to do lots of damage.It's that a normal Fighter-type can still do incredible damage just by using GMW-enhanced bows and arrows with a couple Feats, far less than it'd take to scale your melee damage in the same way.To me, the first step would be to nerf GMW slightly.  How about this for a house rule:When GMW is cast on a bow, the "temporary" enhancement bonus only applies to attack rolls (if the bow already had an enhancement bonus, that lower bonus still applies to damage rolls).  When cast on arrows, the bonus only applies to damage rolls and the ability to bypass DR.So, you only get both the attack and damage bonuses if the magic was inherent, or if you have Arcane Archer levels for the arrows.As for the Shield+Armor thing, there's a big difference: using a Shield requires you to use an additional slot (your off hand) that would otherwise be used for more damage (either from a bigger weapon or an offhand weapon).  If I have a STR of 18, I lose on average 4.5 damage for dropping from a Greatsword to a Longsword.  If the sword-n-board guy Power Attacks to make up for the difference, the Greatsword guy could use Expertise to make up for the shield's AC.</blockquote>

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