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Message: <blockquote data-quote="LokiDR" data-source="post: 503078" data-attributes="member: 6239">Forcing archers to count amzingly cheap items they can carry large numbers of is not all that interesting and tends to take away from the game play in the tedium.Apparently, since there are examples of damage on both sides of this disscussion, it isn't obvious.Where are these threads you mention?  I have only seen one, on sundering bows and I consider the tatic somewhat suspect.  First, you have to be able to harm the weapon, with a weapon of similar enhancement.  As mentioned, those capable fighters are usually busy elsewhere with the PC prerequisite meat shields.  Now there is the question of getting to archer.  Suck some AoOs just to get to a person to use a tatic that might not work, with all the GMW going.  Now, I wonder if this enemy is just doing this because the GM wants to stop the archer if character would think it is a good idea.  Since other have noted sunder monkey's don't seem too effective, it looks like the former.I want to know why you think archers are so doomed at close range.  I have not seen it.TWF and rapid fire are directly comparable.  Archery comes out ahead, by your own words, but this just means that TWF sucks.  Since it is possible to build what you might call a better damage machine, it can't be that archery is good.  That seems a narrow view.  Even when your greatsword/power attacking twink is dealing out more per hit, he has to close, suffering AoOs from reach monsters along with nasty melee actions like trip/improved grab/ect.  Meanwhile the archer is still getting consistant damage and not being hit.  The number of hits you can always get and the movement you don't have to take means the archer's total damage reaches higher, expecially with things like stacking GWM.I have never seen any one use it.  Mounted doesn't work inside of any sort of structure, where a lot of action happens.  If half your fights are bar/inn/castle/dungeon, then a nice bonus when you can get it is fine by me.As for your "improved mount" argument elsewhere, I think you are a little far streched.  Read the mounted example fight in the back of sword and fist.  The paladin has his mount, but the ranger has a fiendish war horse.  It dies in few hits, and that was only one mounted opponent.  There is your valted improved mount.As for this thread stinking, I think you are smelling your own arguments <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></blockquote>

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