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I'm annoyed at archers.
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<blockquote data-quote="Pax" data-source="post: 510481" data-attributes="member: 6875"><p>Most animals, or similar-intelligence "monsters", won't atytack a party of armed (demi)humans. Just like, in real life, most of the time wolves do NOT attack people on sight.</p><p></p><p>They'd have to be desperately hungry, and even then ... that unarmed farmer (Commoner (2) or (3)) and his family are much better targets than armed and armored PCs.</p><p></p><p>IOW, no, <em>"the pack of ____ run twords you, hunger in their eyes"</em> just doesn't cut it as a well-reasoned encounter. That <strong>is</strong> "menagerie of new and more exciting monsters" in action ...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>A <strong>significant</strong> minority -- and frankly, a <strong>majority</strong> of COMBAT encounters.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not even sure why you're obsessed with combat reflexes, anyway. even with it, a given characetr (PC or NPC) can only AoO the same enemy once per round, no matter how many times they trigger it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yet you specificaly deny any and all scenarios presented to you which do JUST that.</p><p></p><p>Parked in a featureless, terrainless, obstacle-less arena, of bloody <strong>course</strong> archery is superior to melee.</p><p></p><p>In practise, however, circumstances are not normally so favorable to ranged combatants in SMALL-group encounters. Especially not in the (IME) typical scenario, where the PC's are outnumbered, often 4 or even 5 to 1 ... !!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Then armor spikes and a reach weapon. Lizardfolk with longspears ... and their bite.</p><p></p><p>Big enemies, like Ogres. Maybe even ... ogres with OGRE-scale longspears (reach ON TOP of reach!!).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Or expert tactician, and deny the archer their dex bonus to AC (a blinkspell, or Ring of Blinking, would do this nicely).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What's worse, an AO or two, or a few rounds of furhter Full Attack actions from the archer(s) ... ?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Nope. The first round, the melee NPC uses a partial charge (1 attack), then a ready action.</p><p></p><p>Every round after that, unless the archer can out-distance or grossly out-maneuver the melee NPC, he FULL ATTACKS, and then readies again.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Ii you double-move, you don't attack -- and the melee fellow gets his AoO against you (for leaving the threatened area, and doing more than a single move ... sucks to be the archer). Then, normal charge (up to double movement) and attack, then ready again. Presuming the odds are at least 1:1 (NPC to PC), the melee PC's may be too damned BUSY to help the archer PC.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>As for the orc behind the wall trick: simple ... right inside the door, the orc has a melee FRIEND. The archer moves to avoid the wall, teh archer takes readied attacks form the melee orc. If the archer stays there, s/he sucks full attacks and AoO's from said melee orc.</p><p></p><p>Melee PC's, OTOH, are often designed to be able to TAKE that sort of thing,a nd deal with it quite happily (i.e., maneuver to put the melee orc in the archer-orc's LOS, gettign cover and in-melee penalties into play in the PC's -favor- ... until the melee orc drops, ofc).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Um, do your enemies simply come out with UPC barcodes on them, waiting for the next PC group to happen by and slaughter them?</p><p></p><p>STORY, man. MOTIVATION. One group of goblins is NOT the same as a group of gnolls. <strong>Where</strong> are they, <strong>why</strong> are they there, and so on.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yep, sounding more and more like "menagerie of exotic creatures" to me. Are your encounters arrayed the same as the "monsters by CR" list in the back of the MM?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Actually, goblins would have numbers enough to use combined-arms tactics. Maybe 20% to 25% of their number in the archers-and-spellcasters department, the rest in the up-close-and-personal department.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Using archery against the PC's changes the tactics in use. Direct archery fire against enemy ranged units, while your toe-to-toe fighters close with <strong>their</strong> counterparts. That's pretty much the most standard of the ultra-<strong>basic</strong> tactics.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>High wind is not as rare as you seem to think it is. A gusty, windy day -- suitable for good kite flying -- is in some places the NORM, and it screws royally with archery.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>SIGNIFICANT</strong> minority. As in, 40% or more. Undead should fill that out a bit (and skeletons can nearly ignore archers!).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>"Sundry" means "various":</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>An honest question; IME, most (if not all) GM's go through that hase. I did, all my friends did; most of us grew out of that phase, some of us never did. I don't think you'd fit into the former group ... you seem more and more to fit with the latter.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You DO seem to have that skill with a large number of ranks; you've taken <strong>part</strong> of some statements, misconstrued otehrs entirely, discounted perfectly reasonable answers ... IOW, you have <strong>displayed</strong> a well-developed ability to apply selective comprehension. I merely observed that fact.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Only here for demeaning others? No; I'm here to engage in debate on the rules of the d20 system. I only demean those who indicate, in various ways, they rather -deserve- it; you have, in this thread. And you caught all of ONE disrespectful comment (while taking needless offense at another, honest question).</p><p></p><p>One might ask why you are online at all, if you are <strong>that</strong> thin-skinned ... ?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Pax, post: 510481, member: 6875"] Most animals, or similar-intelligence "monsters", won't atytack a party of armed (demi)humans. Just like, in real life, most of the time wolves do NOT attack people on sight. They'd have to be desperately hungry, and even then ... that unarmed farmer (Commoner (2) or (3)) and his family are much better targets than armed and armored PCs. IOW, no, [i]"the pack of ____ run twords you, hunger in their eyes"[/i] just doesn't cut it as a well-reasoned encounter. That [b]is[/b] "menagerie of new and more exciting monsters" in action ... A [b]significant[/b] minority -- and frankly, a [b]majority[/b] of COMBAT encounters. I'm not even sure why you're obsessed with combat reflexes, anyway. even with it, a given characetr (PC or NPC) can only AoO the same enemy once per round, no matter how many times they trigger it. Yet you specificaly deny any and all scenarios presented to you which do JUST that. Parked in a featureless, terrainless, obstacle-less arena, of bloody [b]course[/b] archery is superior to melee. In practise, however, circumstances are not normally so favorable to ranged combatants in SMALL-group encounters. Especially not in the (IME) typical scenario, where the PC's are outnumbered, often 4 or even 5 to 1 ... !! Then armor spikes and a reach weapon. Lizardfolk with longspears ... and their bite. Big enemies, like Ogres. Maybe even ... ogres with OGRE-scale longspears (reach ON TOP of reach!!). Or expert tactician, and deny the archer their dex bonus to AC (a blinkspell, or Ring of Blinking, would do this nicely). What's worse, an AO or two, or a few rounds of furhter Full Attack actions from the archer(s) ... ? Nope. The first round, the melee NPC uses a partial charge (1 attack), then a ready action. Every round after that, unless the archer can out-distance or grossly out-maneuver the melee NPC, he FULL ATTACKS, and then readies again. Ii you double-move, you don't attack -- and the melee fellow gets his AoO against you (for leaving the threatened area, and doing more than a single move ... sucks to be the archer). Then, normal charge (up to double movement) and attack, then ready again. Presuming the odds are at least 1:1 (NPC to PC), the melee PC's may be too damned BUSY to help the archer PC. As for the orc behind the wall trick: simple ... right inside the door, the orc has a melee FRIEND. The archer moves to avoid the wall, teh archer takes readied attacks form the melee orc. If the archer stays there, s/he sucks full attacks and AoO's from said melee orc. Melee PC's, OTOH, are often designed to be able to TAKE that sort of thing,a nd deal with it quite happily (i.e., maneuver to put the melee orc in the archer-orc's LOS, gettign cover and in-melee penalties into play in the PC's -favor- ... until the melee orc drops, ofc). Um, do your enemies simply come out with UPC barcodes on them, waiting for the next PC group to happen by and slaughter them? STORY, man. MOTIVATION. One group of goblins is NOT the same as a group of gnolls. [b]Where[/b] are they, [b]why[/b] are they there, and so on. Yep, sounding more and more like "menagerie of exotic creatures" to me. Are your encounters arrayed the same as the "monsters by CR" list in the back of the MM? Actually, goblins would have numbers enough to use combined-arms tactics. Maybe 20% to 25% of their number in the archers-and-spellcasters department, the rest in the up-close-and-personal department. Using archery against the PC's changes the tactics in use. Direct archery fire against enemy ranged units, while your toe-to-toe fighters close with [b]their[/b] counterparts. That's pretty much the most standard of the ultra-[b]basic[/b] tactics. High wind is not as rare as you seem to think it is. A gusty, windy day -- suitable for good kite flying -- is in some places the NORM, and it screws royally with archery. [b]SIGNIFICANT[/b] minority. As in, 40% or more. Undead should fill that out a bit (and skeletons can nearly ignore archers!). "Sundry" means "various": An honest question; IME, most (if not all) GM's go through that hase. I did, all my friends did; most of us grew out of that phase, some of us never did. I don't think you'd fit into the former group ... you seem more and more to fit with the latter. You DO seem to have that skill with a large number of ranks; you've taken [b]part[/b] of some statements, misconstrued otehrs entirely, discounted perfectly reasonable answers ... IOW, you have [b]displayed[/b] a well-developed ability to apply selective comprehension. I merely observed that fact. Only here for demeaning others? No; I'm here to engage in debate on the rules of the d20 system. I only demean those who indicate, in various ways, they rather -deserve- it; you have, in this thread. And you caught all of ONE disrespectful comment (while taking needless offense at another, honest question). One might ask why you are online at all, if you are [b]that[/b] thin-skinned ... ? [/QUOTE]
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