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Message: <blockquote data-quote="WizarDru" data-source="post: 516300" data-attributes="member: 151">How do you figure that?  You've removed some of the penalties of the class, and I'm guessing that you've also removed the armor restrictions.  In exchange, he gets a beefy WILL save, only loses up to 2 hps/level, and gets spellcasting ability earlier.  There is more to the equation than BAB.  Your dislike for the stacking effects of GMW should point that out to you, alone.Sounds like the fighter isn't getting improved invis, making this less of an apples to apples comparison.  Against a construct or the undead, your rogue isn't going to do that much in comparison to the fighter.  It sounds like you're setting up a lot of encounters that play to the archer's strengths, honestly.  You also don't mention the fighter getting a GMW.  Is he, or is he hitting well enough it was deemed he 'didn't need it'?  With that increased threat range, his damage would be better if he had it, which would also change things.The rogue is doing what he's supposed to, getting his sneak attacks.  His reduced BAB should be penalizing him here, or they're coming up against very dextrous foes, and suffering badly when their dex bonus is denied.  In both cases, your problem seems more to be with GMW than with archers.  It sounds like the archers throw down their bows when the beasties get close, so they're not incurring the danger of AoOs and/or low mobility while in combat.  I'm not seeing a problem there, honestly.Well, that's two different issues.  NPCs and monsters follow different rules, for very important reasons.  Hence the reason for ECLs being sometimes radically different than a creatures CR.  I have used archers against my players...and they've been ripped apart just as much as melee beasties.  I've also noticed that pure archers tend to be stymied with non-lethality situations.  In one combat we experienced, the enemy had used small children as power-sources for constructs, and destroying the constructs would result in killing their hosts.  Subdual damage and other tactics were needed.  Dominated or confused fellow party members is another problem that requires more than just killing the target.  Someone who opined that subdual damage isn't a useful ability of melee obviously plays a fairly limited game, IMHO.</blockquote>

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