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<blockquote data-quote="ChrisCarlson" data-source="post: 6810014" data-attributes="member: 6801216">I whole-heartedly agree. Heck, it's why any version of Deadlands, that is not the original from Pinnacle, is a daggum travesty... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />But the problem is, &quot;leader of men&quot; is a personality trope, not a class. As evident by the fact that it can be realized through roleplayed just fine (and has been for decades). This is irrefutable.A desire to have a great deal of &quot;mechanical effects [that] tie in with what is happening in the fiction&quot; can be (doesn't have to be, but can be) an indicator that there are other systems better suited for the individual's needs than 5e. That's not a bad thing, just sayin'.And yet you can play a religiously devout warrior (and with the acolyte background he even becomes an honest-to-god, full-fledged priest!).The problem with saying that you want &quot;leader of men&quot; to have mechanical weight in a game like D&amp;D, is that it is implicitly seeking a leadership role over the other PCs. Because, after all, those other PCs at the table are the &quot;men&quot; you are seeking to &quot;lead&quot;. Look, this particular dead horse has been thoroughly bludgeoned in countless threads at this point, but there it is.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ChrisCarlson, post: 6810014, member: 6801216"] I whole-heartedly agree. Heck, it's why any version of Deadlands, that is not the original from Pinnacle, is a daggum travesty... ;) But the problem is, "leader of men" is a personality trope, not a class. As evident by the fact that it [i]can[/i] be realized through roleplayed just fine (and has been for decades). This is irrefutable. A desire to have a great deal of [i]"mechanical effects [that] tie in with what is happening in the fiction"[/i] can be (doesn't have to be, but can be) an indicator that there are other systems better suited for the individual's needs than 5e. That's not a bad thing, just sayin'. And yet you [i]can[/i] play a religiously devout warrior (and with the acolyte background he even becomes an honest-to-god, full-fledged priest!). The problem with saying that you want "leader of men" to have mechanical weight in a game like D&D, is that it is implicitly seeking a leadership role over the other PCs. Because, after all, those other PCs at the table are the "men" you are seeking to "lead". Look, this particular dead horse has been thoroughly bludgeoned in countless threads at this point, but there it is. [/QUOTE]

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