Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
I'm reading the Forgotten Realms Novels- #202 The Howling Delve by Jaleigh Johnson (Dungeons 2)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Alzrius" data-source="post: 8075769" data-attributes="member: 8461"><p>And this book is really what the trilogy is all about. As much as it tries to bill itself as "the story of Sunbright and co.," I strongly suspect that the real attraction for many fans of the Realms was "come watch the explosive ending of Netheril, up close and personal," since by this point the events of <a href="https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Karsus%27s_Folly" target="_blank">Karsus's Folly</a> were well-known.</p><p></p><p>I'll go ahead and note right off the bat that the <a href="https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Karsus%27s_avatar" target="_blank"><em>Karsus's avatar</em></a> spell was given game statistics, presented in the Netheril boxed set mentioned in my previous post and again in <a href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17535/Powers--Pantheons-2e?affiliate_id=820" target="_blank">Powers & Pantheons</a> in the entry for Karsus, who's included there since he is technically a deity, albeit one in a state of perpetual living death similar to what happens when Darkseid hits someone with the Omega Effect. Rather oddly, while the wiki page linked to above asserts that the spell's original presentation (in the Netheril boxed set) suggested that the spell was always of limited duration, I can't seem to find anything corroborating that in the text itself. Insofar as I know, the first suggestion that the spell's duration was "limited" was in the P&P entry.</p><p></p><p>Of course, the whole "after Netheril fell, 11th- and 12th-level spells were removed from the realm of mortal achievement" bit became rather problematic in D&D Third Edition thanks to certain quirks of <a href="https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedSpellCapacity" target="_blank">epic progression</a>. In fact, according to the <a href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/23683/Epic-Level-Handbook-3e?affiliate_id=820" target="_blank">Epic Level Handbook</a>, Halaster Blackcloak actually took that feat enough to gain a 12th-level spell slot. But, as <a href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/28446/Lost-Empires-of-Faerun-35?affiliate_id=820" target="_blank">Lost Empires of Faerun</a> would tell us later, it was no coincidence that even though you could have high-level spell <em>slots</em>, there were no actual 10th-level or higher <em>spells</em>, just lower-level spells that you could bump up with metamagic feats. Oh, and <a href="https://www.d20srd.org/indexes/epicSpells.htm" target="_blank">"epic spells"</a>, which LEoF said were basically only used as "elven high magic," despite those being entirely different in their AD&D 2E presentation a la <a href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17550/Cormanthyr-Empire-of-the-Elves-2e" target="_blank">Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves</a>.</p><p></p><p>But I digress (clearly).</p><p></p><p>The story itself is fairly straightforward, though getting to see Karsus himself is quite notable. While his personality is given a brief description in the boxed set, this is where we get to see him in all his glory, being like <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzfOk0Dsba0" target="_blank">GIR from <em>Invader Zim</em></a> except without any of the restraints that broadcast standards require characters to have. The fact that he's the only one who detected the phaerimm makes this funnier, because who's going to believe the guy who turns people into jelly for fun when he says that magic whirlwind-creatures who live underground are plotting against him?</p><p></p><p>I frowned at seeing how <a href="https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Wulgreth_(Netheril)" target="_blank">Wulgreth</a> was depicted, though. I mean, I get that there are already enough "ancient Netherese liches" out there, what with the <a href="https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Larloch" target="_blank">Larloch</a>, <a href="https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Aumvor" target="_blank">Aumvor</a>, the lich lord from the previous novel, and the one in <em>How the Mighty Are Fallen</em> (linked to previously) all running around. Plus the guys from the Shade enclave (who aren't liches, but are thematically close enough), which we'll get to later. Still, Wulgreth was supposed to be a notable arcanist in his own right, who even after becoming a lich put into motion a scheme to destroy the cult that sprung up around Karsus shortly after the fall of Netheril (albeit limited to the city of <a href="https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Karse" target="_blank">Karse</a>). So why is he depicted as basically being an undead gorilla here, hooting and beating his chest and leering at Knucklebones? That just came across as wrong to me.</p><p></p><p>Beyond that, the book does a decent enough job showing the utter decadence that Netheril falls into. Food riots being common, even as Lady Polaris has eaten herself into a blimp? Check. Experimenting on human prisoners as part of magical research? Check. There's really no stereotype of "total social collapse" that isn't used here, short of having actual barbarians at the gates. Or is that Sunbright's role here? Either way, the book's portrayal of the place is about as heavy-handed as can be, though to be fair a lot of this had been implied in previous works for a while. Even so, with the heroes being time-travelers for whom this is the future, you'd wonder if the thought of changing things <em>Back to the Future</em>-style ever so much as crosses their mind, though I suppose that's what the third book is for.</p><p></p><p>(Spoiler alert: they don't. The game lore is too valuable to discard so easily.)</p><p></p><p><em>Please note that all of the DrivethruRPG links given above are affiliate links.</em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Alzrius, post: 8075769, member: 8461"] And this book is really what the trilogy is all about. As much as it tries to bill itself as "the story of Sunbright and co.," I strongly suspect that the real attraction for many fans of the Realms was "come watch the explosive ending of Netheril, up close and personal," since by this point the events of [URL='https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Karsus%27s_Folly']Karsus's Folly[/URL] were well-known. I'll go ahead and note right off the bat that the [URL='https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Karsus%27s_avatar'][I]Karsus's avatar[/I][/URL] spell was given game statistics, presented in the Netheril boxed set mentioned in my previous post and again in [URL='https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17535/Powers--Pantheons-2e?affiliate_id=820']Powers & Pantheons[/URL] in the entry for Karsus, who's included there since he is technically a deity, albeit one in a state of perpetual living death similar to what happens when Darkseid hits someone with the Omega Effect. Rather oddly, while the wiki page linked to above asserts that the spell's original presentation (in the Netheril boxed set) suggested that the spell was always of limited duration, I can't seem to find anything corroborating that in the text itself. Insofar as I know, the first suggestion that the spell's duration was "limited" was in the P&P entry. Of course, the whole "after Netheril fell, 11th- and 12th-level spells were removed from the realm of mortal achievement" bit became rather problematic in D&D Third Edition thanks to certain quirks of [URL='https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedSpellCapacity']epic progression[/URL]. In fact, according to the [URL='https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/23683/Epic-Level-Handbook-3e?affiliate_id=820']Epic Level Handbook[/URL], Halaster Blackcloak actually took that feat enough to gain a 12th-level spell slot. But, as [URL='https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/28446/Lost-Empires-of-Faerun-35?affiliate_id=820']Lost Empires of Faerun[/URL] would tell us later, it was no coincidence that even though you could have high-level spell [I]slots[/I], there were no actual 10th-level or higher [I]spells[/I], just lower-level spells that you could bump up with metamagic feats. Oh, and [URL='https://www.d20srd.org/indexes/epicSpells.htm']"epic spells"[/URL], which LEoF said were basically only used as "elven high magic," despite those being entirely different in their AD&D 2E presentation a la [URL='https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17550/Cormanthyr-Empire-of-the-Elves-2e']Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves[/URL]. But I digress (clearly). The story itself is fairly straightforward, though getting to see Karsus himself is quite notable. While his personality is given a brief description in the boxed set, this is where we get to see him in all his glory, being like [URL='https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzfOk0Dsba0']GIR from [I]Invader Zim[/I][/URL] except without any of the restraints that broadcast standards require characters to have. The fact that he's the only one who detected the phaerimm makes this funnier, because who's going to believe the guy who turns people into jelly for fun when he says that magic whirlwind-creatures who live underground are plotting against him? I frowned at seeing how [URL='https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Wulgreth_(Netheril)']Wulgreth[/URL] was depicted, though. I mean, I get that there are already enough "ancient Netherese liches" out there, what with the [URL='https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Larloch']Larloch[/URL], [URL='https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Aumvor']Aumvor[/URL], the lich lord from the previous novel, and the one in [I]How the Mighty Are Fallen[/I] (linked to previously) all running around. Plus the guys from the Shade enclave (who aren't liches, but are thematically close enough), which we'll get to later. Still, Wulgreth was supposed to be a notable arcanist in his own right, who even after becoming a lich put into motion a scheme to destroy the cult that sprung up around Karsus shortly after the fall of Netheril (albeit limited to the city of [URL='https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Karse']Karse[/URL]). So why is he depicted as basically being an undead gorilla here, hooting and beating his chest and leering at Knucklebones? That just came across as wrong to me. Beyond that, the book does a decent enough job showing the utter decadence that Netheril falls into. Food riots being common, even as Lady Polaris has eaten herself into a blimp? Check. Experimenting on human prisoners as part of magical research? Check. There's really no stereotype of "total social collapse" that isn't used here, short of having actual barbarians at the gates. Or is that Sunbright's role here? Either way, the book's portrayal of the place is about as heavy-handed as can be, though to be fair a lot of this had been implied in previous works for a while. Even so, with the heroes being time-travelers for whom this is the future, you'd wonder if the thought of changing things [I]Back to the Future[/I]-style ever so much as crosses their mind, though I suppose that's what the third book is for. (Spoiler alert: they don't. The game lore is too valuable to discard so easily.) [I]Please note that all of the DrivethruRPG links given above are affiliate links.[/I] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
I'm reading the Forgotten Realms Novels- #202 The Howling Delve by Jaleigh Johnson (Dungeons 2)
Top