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I'm reading the Forgotten Realms Novels- #202 The Howling Delve by Jaleigh Johnson (Dungeons 2)
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<blockquote data-quote="Goonalan" data-source="post: 8460506" data-attributes="member: 16069"><p><strong>#144 Dissolution by Richard Lee Byers (War Spider Queen 1) </strong></p><p><strong>Read 11/11/21 to 14/11/21</strong></p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]146871[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p>Well, everything is better with Drow, who would have thought it.</p><p></p><p>I really enjoyed this book, and for a variety of reasons (although mostly down to the DM in me).</p><p></p><p>I enjoyed it so much that it made me think, if this had come first on the reading list- would I have enjoyed Drizzt's escapades in Menzo less? The answer, of course, would be yes. I'm not saying this one (this series?) is better than the original, but- there's a lot of meat on this particular bone.</p><p></p><p>Also, Drizzt is the exception to the rule, he's the drow that sees the drow for what they are, he's a hero- an anti-hero (maybe) but more likely, and having read this one, he's not nearly anti-hero enough. For me.</p><p></p><p>Is there another FR book, that I have read so far, that employs more dastardly folk as the central characters here? </p><p></p><p>In this one we follow Pharaun & Ryld (Masters both) as they go about their detective business, we also spend plenty of time Quenthel (the third Master of Menzo) as the daughter of Baenre struggles with Lloth's departure/withdrawal and the subsequent loss of priestly powers.</p><p></p><p>So, here's the first thing- none of these folk are traditional heroes/central characters, don't get me wrong they're awfully good company, but mainly for the reason that, well... anything goes. Even atrocities are an option- the loss of innocent (or other) lives- commonplace, to be expected.</p><p></p><p>These are very bad people, but y'know, in a very bad world.</p><p></p><p>Drizzt was a good fellow in the same bad world- we wanted him to escape, to get to the surface- to see the sun, the wind, and rain (sorry, I went all rangery)... and all of that other hippy-dippy shiznit. The three named above, less so... </p><p></p><p>Don't get me wrong Pharaun & Ryld could be the next Jarlaxle & Entreri (or similar), they're the best at what they do, they're cool (super-cool), Pharaun is glib and funny; Ryld is the brooding menace. So far, so good- so recognisable.</p><p></p><p>Quenthel is a tyrannical maniac- but logic-based, so- explainable, and, of course, everyone that's against Quenthel (and the P&R double act) is even worse, even more nasty- so, hurrah for the Master's of Menzo!</p><p></p><p>That's not a bad place to be- for a reader, watching and willing on as a trio of funny/terrifying drow masters detectivise their way out of this one...</p><p></p><p>Just take a moment to appreciate the cleverness of this idea.</p><p></p><p>These aren't the trad. good guys you are reading about, they're not even the least objectionable, they (and particularly Quenthel) are just the folk that were there at the time- to make sense of it, the clever (evil?) folk that made some of it happen.</p><p></p><p>Nice!</p><p></p><p>Why else is this one great- it swings by, when its not action its places (squalid places) that the previous Menzo-based novels have not gone before. The Alhoon revolution, the uprising of the slavers/fodder, that's okay but better still its an excuse to take us for a wander through the bad places in Menzo, and that's enlightening. I can see how it all works now, before I was sorta guessing.</p><p></p><p>The same is true for Quenthel and her defence of Arach-Tinilith, which we explore repeatedly- and get to meet the cast, as the demon hunting game goes on.</p><p></p><p>Obviously then there's the other little side plots- Greyanna trying to kill Pharaun, and Gromph (the source of the demons) also trying to kill his sister. It's a joyous place is Menzo, just a great venue for adventure- why isn't there a WOTC mega-dungeon set down here. I remember DMing G1-3, D1-3 & Q1; but that was a million years ago. I sorta remember a Return to the Demonweb Pits (or something similar) was that 3.5E? I'm not stopping to look it up.</p><p></p><p>Memory jog- I also remember a Menzo book in 4e, but I never got around to reading it, and sold it on- like I did with all of that edition.</p><p></p><p>Surely time for a revisit? But I guess I'm shouting this because I'm still sitting in Menzo right now.</p><p></p><p>So, villains as heroes- and I mean proper villains, I get that Pharaun & Ryld are relative moderates but neither of them have the moral/ethical ying-yang that so infects Drizzt going on. It's just kill or be killed, or else- this person needs to die to forward my plan, therefore "DIE!"</p><p></p><p>Menzo is a delight, it's a place I want to DM, it's a place I want to live (in-game).</p><p></p><p>The writing is good, Ryld and Pharaun are suitable brooding/comic, and in the end the latter is more than capable of abandoning his partner in order to extract himself from the situation, and save his skin. They're the best of friends, in a world in which best friends take it in turns to plot and/or kill each other.</p><p></p><p>That really works.</p><p></p><p>Quenthel is just as detective and just as insightful, and particularly as she takes the time to explain to us (the reader) what's going on atm, and what her next move should be, and why. She's Margaret Thatcher reborn as a drow (but hang on) an iron fisted tyrant with a heart of... actually, I'm not sure she has a heart at all. But what a character.</p><p></p><p>I think we're going to Ched Nasad in the next one, I am so looking forward to that.</p><p></p><p>But again, these are villains, or else- if only the villains in other books were half as cool/cruel as these two/three.</p><p></p><p>You'd want them to win.</p><p></p><p>Oops! I think I've just worked out the problem with too-cool villains.</p><p></p><p>Recap- the nastier your central characters are, the more dystopian and cruel the setting needs to be- got it, and it works.</p><p></p><p>I really enjoyed this one, and can't wait to get to the next.</p><p></p><p>What's with the "RA Salvatore's War of the Spider Queen..." thing atop each of the novels. Did Bob plot it all out? Did Bob come up with the idea? Did Bob... I'm sure there were lots of politics involved in the creation of this series. Dilute the source, diminish his power, as it turns out other people can write really good drow novels.</p><p></p><p>Oh, and Elaine Cunningham's Liriel- too nice, too bratty (at times), and too quickly to the surface; I hate to say it but this is my favourite drow-based book so far.</p><p></p><p>More fun than Drizzt et al.</p><p></p><p>Sorry. I just really enjoyed everything about it, oh and Pharaun is Danillo Thann, only less posh- more approachable, with better lines and with a refreshing- smart/glib/zingy(?) outlook.</p><p></p><p>I heart Pharaun.</p><p></p><p>And Ryld.</p><p></p><p>And Quenthel, more than a little.</p><p></p><p>Oh, and I want a Draegloth for Christmas, can you fix that?</p><p></p><p>Read.</p><p></p><p>Stay safe and well.</p><p></p><p>Cheers goonalan.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Goonalan, post: 8460506, member: 16069"] [B]#144 Dissolution by Richard Lee Byers (War Spider Queen 1) Read 11/11/21 to 14/11/21[/B] [ATTACH type="full" width="202px"]146871[/ATTACH] Well, everything is better with Drow, who would have thought it. I really enjoyed this book, and for a variety of reasons (although mostly down to the DM in me). I enjoyed it so much that it made me think, if this had come first on the reading list- would I have enjoyed Drizzt's escapades in Menzo less? The answer, of course, would be yes. I'm not saying this one (this series?) is better than the original, but- there's a lot of meat on this particular bone. Also, Drizzt is the exception to the rule, he's the drow that sees the drow for what they are, he's a hero- an anti-hero (maybe) but more likely, and having read this one, he's not nearly anti-hero enough. For me. Is there another FR book, that I have read so far, that employs more dastardly folk as the central characters here? In this one we follow Pharaun & Ryld (Masters both) as they go about their detective business, we also spend plenty of time Quenthel (the third Master of Menzo) as the daughter of Baenre struggles with Lloth's departure/withdrawal and the subsequent loss of priestly powers. So, here's the first thing- none of these folk are traditional heroes/central characters, don't get me wrong they're awfully good company, but mainly for the reason that, well... anything goes. Even atrocities are an option- the loss of innocent (or other) lives- commonplace, to be expected. These are very bad people, but y'know, in a very bad world. Drizzt was a good fellow in the same bad world- we wanted him to escape, to get to the surface- to see the sun, the wind, and rain (sorry, I went all rangery)... and all of that other hippy-dippy shiznit. The three named above, less so... Don't get me wrong Pharaun & Ryld could be the next Jarlaxle & Entreri (or similar), they're the best at what they do, they're cool (super-cool), Pharaun is glib and funny; Ryld is the brooding menace. So far, so good- so recognisable. Quenthel is a tyrannical maniac- but logic-based, so- explainable, and, of course, everyone that's against Quenthel (and the P&R double act) is even worse, even more nasty- so, hurrah for the Master's of Menzo! That's not a bad place to be- for a reader, watching and willing on as a trio of funny/terrifying drow masters detectivise their way out of this one... Just take a moment to appreciate the cleverness of this idea. These aren't the trad. good guys you are reading about, they're not even the least objectionable, they (and particularly Quenthel) are just the folk that were there at the time- to make sense of it, the clever (evil?) folk that made some of it happen. Nice! Why else is this one great- it swings by, when its not action its places (squalid places) that the previous Menzo-based novels have not gone before. The Alhoon revolution, the uprising of the slavers/fodder, that's okay but better still its an excuse to take us for a wander through the bad places in Menzo, and that's enlightening. I can see how it all works now, before I was sorta guessing. The same is true for Quenthel and her defence of Arach-Tinilith, which we explore repeatedly- and get to meet the cast, as the demon hunting game goes on. Obviously then there's the other little side plots- Greyanna trying to kill Pharaun, and Gromph (the source of the demons) also trying to kill his sister. It's a joyous place is Menzo, just a great venue for adventure- why isn't there a WOTC mega-dungeon set down here. I remember DMing G1-3, D1-3 & Q1; but that was a million years ago. I sorta remember a Return to the Demonweb Pits (or something similar) was that 3.5E? I'm not stopping to look it up. Memory jog- I also remember a Menzo book in 4e, but I never got around to reading it, and sold it on- like I did with all of that edition. Surely time for a revisit? But I guess I'm shouting this because I'm still sitting in Menzo right now. So, villains as heroes- and I mean proper villains, I get that Pharaun & Ryld are relative moderates but neither of them have the moral/ethical ying-yang that so infects Drizzt going on. It's just kill or be killed, or else- this person needs to die to forward my plan, therefore "DIE!" Menzo is a delight, it's a place I want to DM, it's a place I want to live (in-game). The writing is good, Ryld and Pharaun are suitable brooding/comic, and in the end the latter is more than capable of abandoning his partner in order to extract himself from the situation, and save his skin. They're the best of friends, in a world in which best friends take it in turns to plot and/or kill each other. That really works. Quenthel is just as detective and just as insightful, and particularly as she takes the time to explain to us (the reader) what's going on atm, and what her next move should be, and why. She's Margaret Thatcher reborn as a drow (but hang on) an iron fisted tyrant with a heart of... actually, I'm not sure she has a heart at all. But what a character. I think we're going to Ched Nasad in the next one, I am so looking forward to that. But again, these are villains, or else- if only the villains in other books were half as cool/cruel as these two/three. You'd want them to win. Oops! I think I've just worked out the problem with too-cool villains. Recap- the nastier your central characters are, the more dystopian and cruel the setting needs to be- got it, and it works. I really enjoyed this one, and can't wait to get to the next. What's with the "RA Salvatore's War of the Spider Queen..." thing atop each of the novels. Did Bob plot it all out? Did Bob come up with the idea? Did Bob... I'm sure there were lots of politics involved in the creation of this series. Dilute the source, diminish his power, as it turns out other people can write really good drow novels. Oh, and Elaine Cunningham's Liriel- too nice, too bratty (at times), and too quickly to the surface; I hate to say it but this is my favourite drow-based book so far. More fun than Drizzt et al. Sorry. I just really enjoyed everything about it, oh and Pharaun is Danillo Thann, only less posh- more approachable, with better lines and with a refreshing- smart/glib/zingy(?) outlook. I heart Pharaun. And Ryld. And Quenthel, more than a little. Oh, and I want a Draegloth for Christmas, can you fix that? Read. Stay safe and well. Cheers goonalan. [/QUOTE]
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