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I'm reading the Forgotten Realms Novels- #202 The Howling Delve by Jaleigh Johnson (Dungeons 2)
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<blockquote data-quote="Alzrius" data-source="post: 8495768" data-attributes="member: 8461"><p>Going back over this one in my head, I agree that it was the weak link in the series, but mostly due to being overshadowed rather than fumbling anything.</p><p></p><p>Part of what I found difficult to swallow here was the rewrite of the lore around yugoloths. I mean, I'm sorry, but "Inthracis"? Everything about him sounds like a cheap knock-off of <a href="https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Anthraxus" target="_blank">Anthraxus</a>. Moreover, his being strongarmed by Vhaeraun despite supposedly being the second-most-powerful member of the 'loths is something that flies in the face of how they've been classically depicted. <a href="https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Khin-Oin" target="_blank">Khin-Oin</a> is supposedly made out of the spine of the first god who crossed the yugoloths. You'd never know that by reading what's here.</p><p></p><p>There's also the fact that Inthracis makes liberal use of the <a href="https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clone.htm" target="_blank"><em>clone</em></a> spell - a la Manshoon - to repeatedly survive his own death. I mean, that's technically not against the D&D 3.5 rules, but it feels like it should be. I mean, the <a href="https://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#outsiderType" target="_blank">Outsider type</a> has an entire bullet point describing how their bodies and souls are a single unit, rather than existing in a dual nature, and so most life-restoring spells don't work on them. Yes, it omits mention of the <em>clone</em> spell, and the spell itself doesn't explicitly forbid Outsiders from using it (or reference <em>raise dead</em>, <em>resurrection</em>, etc.), but this really feels like an exploit, you know? It's the sort of thing that gives rules lawyers a bad name.</p><p></p><p>Regarding the ending, I remember a quote from Paul Kemp (I think from the old FR mailing list) where he talked about some of the decisions that were made regarding how things turned out. It was taken as a given, for instance, that only one member of the band could return to Menzoberranzan, because...something about how it having multiple members of the party return would have forced a power struggle over who got credit for the Silence ending, I think? I can't quite recall now, but it was definitely decided that only a single member would make it back alive (though quite obviously, sequel series undid this).</p><p></p><p>Personally, I'm glad it was Quenthel. She's petty and cruel, but you get the sense that she doesn't really know how else to be, and flounders when not able to live in her "stereotypical drow" comfort zone to the point where it becomes oddly endearing. Like an aggressive puppy who growls at everyone, but has never been outside of their owner's apartment, when they find themselves lost in the wilderness you still end up rooting for them to make it back okay, because deep down you know they're just a scared little puppy. That's how Quenthel came across (and of course, we know from <a href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/168539/Menzoberranzan-City-of-Intrigue-4e?affiliate_id=820" target="_blank"><em>Menzoberranzan: City of Intrigue</em></a> (affiliate link), that she eventually took over the city anyway), at least to me.</p><p></p><p>Another thing Kemp expounded upon was the nature of the tests that Halisstra, Quenthel, and Danifae went through. Namely, that it was a test of character for each of them. Halisstra, being torn between religions, failed to slay Lolth when she found herself in her vision, instead falling down weeping (if she <em>had</em> killed Lolth, Kemp revealed, she would have passed the test, implying that she would have become part of the goddess instead of Danifae). Quenthel, engaging in petty acts of vengeance for not being chosen, was likewise considered a failure.</p><p></p><p>But Danifae? In her vision, she lost everything, and her attitude to that was "Bring it on!" She's been down and out before, and she knows how to climb back to the top, and that's what she demonstrated. So she was the one to become part of nuLolth, who subsequently seemed just like the old Lolth.</p><p></p><p>And really, that's kind of my problem with how this all ended. I won't say it was with a whimper, but it was more like a shrug. We got a sequel series (The Lady Penitent), and other characters returned later on (The Empyrean Odyssey), but otherwise, things were overshadowed by the forthcoming Spellplague and move to Fourth Edition too much for this to make much of a lasting impression. Lolth became a greater deity? Okay...I suppose you can point to something about how only greater deities made it through the Spellplague without losing a lot of their power, but that seems like a fairly minor point to justify an entire series around (and there's no way they were anticipating that when the War of the Spider-Queen series started).</p><p></p><p>It's kind of like putting on a dramatic production of <em>Death of a Salesman</em> in the middle of an airport terminal. You'll definitely get some eyeballs, but too much other stuff is going on for it to make much of an impact.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Alzrius, post: 8495768, member: 8461"] Going back over this one in my head, I agree that it was the weak link in the series, but mostly due to being overshadowed rather than fumbling anything. Part of what I found difficult to swallow here was the rewrite of the lore around yugoloths. I mean, I'm sorry, but "Inthracis"? Everything about him sounds like a cheap knock-off of [URL='https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Anthraxus']Anthraxus[/URL]. Moreover, his being strongarmed by Vhaeraun despite supposedly being the second-most-powerful member of the 'loths is something that flies in the face of how they've been classically depicted. [URL='https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Khin-Oin']Khin-Oin[/URL] is supposedly made out of the spine of the first god who crossed the yugoloths. You'd never know that by reading what's here. There's also the fact that Inthracis makes liberal use of the [URL='https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clone.htm'][I]clone[/I][/URL] spell - a la Manshoon - to repeatedly survive his own death. I mean, that's technically not against the D&D 3.5 rules, but it feels like it should be. I mean, the [URL='https://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#outsiderType']Outsider type[/URL] has an entire bullet point describing how their bodies and souls are a single unit, rather than existing in a dual nature, and so most life-restoring spells don't work on them. Yes, it omits mention of the [I]clone[/I] spell, and the spell itself doesn't explicitly forbid Outsiders from using it (or reference [I]raise dead[/I], [I]resurrection[/I], etc.), but this really feels like an exploit, you know? It's the sort of thing that gives rules lawyers a bad name. Regarding the ending, I remember a quote from Paul Kemp (I think from the old FR mailing list) where he talked about some of the decisions that were made regarding how things turned out. It was taken as a given, for instance, that only one member of the band could return to Menzoberranzan, because...something about how it having multiple members of the party return would have forced a power struggle over who got credit for the Silence ending, I think? I can't quite recall now, but it was definitely decided that only a single member would make it back alive (though quite obviously, sequel series undid this). Personally, I'm glad it was Quenthel. She's petty and cruel, but you get the sense that she doesn't really know how else to be, and flounders when not able to live in her "stereotypical drow" comfort zone to the point where it becomes oddly endearing. Like an aggressive puppy who growls at everyone, but has never been outside of their owner's apartment, when they find themselves lost in the wilderness you still end up rooting for them to make it back okay, because deep down you know they're just a scared little puppy. That's how Quenthel came across (and of course, we know from [URL='https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/168539/Menzoberranzan-City-of-Intrigue-4e?affiliate_id=820'][I]Menzoberranzan: City of Intrigue[/I][/URL] (affiliate link), that she eventually took over the city anyway), at least to me. Another thing Kemp expounded upon was the nature of the tests that Halisstra, Quenthel, and Danifae went through. Namely, that it was a test of character for each of them. Halisstra, being torn between religions, failed to slay Lolth when she found herself in her vision, instead falling down weeping (if she [I]had[/I] killed Lolth, Kemp revealed, she would have passed the test, implying that she would have become part of the goddess instead of Danifae). Quenthel, engaging in petty acts of vengeance for not being chosen, was likewise considered a failure. But Danifae? In her vision, she lost everything, and her attitude to that was "Bring it on!" She's been down and out before, and she knows how to climb back to the top, and that's what she demonstrated. So she was the one to become part of nuLolth, who subsequently seemed just like the old Lolth. And really, that's kind of my problem with how this all ended. I won't say it was with a whimper, but it was more like a shrug. We got a sequel series (The Lady Penitent), and other characters returned later on (The Empyrean Odyssey), but otherwise, things were overshadowed by the forthcoming Spellplague and move to Fourth Edition too much for this to make much of a lasting impression. Lolth became a greater deity? Okay...I suppose you can point to something about how only greater deities made it through the Spellplague without losing a lot of their power, but that seems like a fairly minor point to justify an entire series around (and there's no way they were anticipating that when the War of the Spider-Queen series started). It's kind of like putting on a dramatic production of [I]Death of a Salesman[/I] in the middle of an airport terminal. You'll definitely get some eyeballs, but too much other stuff is going on for it to make much of an impact. [/QUOTE]
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