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Message: <blockquote data-quote="WizarDru" data-source="post: 1922143" data-attributes="member: 151">Those options already exist under 3e, though.  But some options, by design, are less useful to some players than others.  For your players, clearly, they all simply want a direct piece of the BBEG, and only through direct action.  That isn't how some players want it, nor is the system designed for it.  I would posit that the majority aren't interested in seeing the class-system completely dismantled and a new one take it's place.  I can envision different ways that those scenarios could be made more interesting and involving for individuals, too, but the issue is one of core competency.  It sounds like you're advocating removing salient features of the core classes, or rendering them equal in the Diablo II sense, where a paladin and necromancer are equally good combatants, in their own way.  I'm not sure if that's what you're advocating, but I wouldn't look forward to that approach, myself.  Any character accepts that he has certain weaknesses, as part of the game's design.  3e provides you with plenty of choices, and that includes not needing a specific character class to successfully adventure.  The game may play differently without a cleric, but he isn't absolutely necessary....just good to have around.  A zombie can be killed without being turned...but it's harder.  A bodak may not kill you if you make your save...but it's a lot easier if you have a death ward running.  The same applies for a rogue, fighter or wizard.  It sounds like the issues you're having are with published adventures more than anything else.  Which more and more leads me to think that either Grim Tales or Unearthed Arcana is what you're after.  Grim Tales isn't a book of house rules, it's a completely different take on D&D, incorporating an entirely different mindset.  Unearthed Arcana is all about tinkering with core D&D, with things like spell points, reducing all classes down to their cores and erasing the lines between them, alternate damage systems and ways to change the very fabric of D&D (not to be confused with Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed).  Diaglo has shown amazing restraint here in not advocating his system of choice: original D&D.  It sounds like what you might be saying is that you want your players to be able to do any option that comes in their head, such as the wizard fighting with the torch, or the fighter grabbing a holy symbol and driving the skeleton back or more unusual solutions that you feel the system doesn't promote.  I'd agree that it doesn't...but that it'd be easier for you, as an indivdual, to do that than for the entire system to change to find a way to provide you that option.</blockquote>

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