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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hautamaki" data-source="post: 5790249" data-attributes="member: 42219"><p>One option that nobody has mentioned is to just make the game so challenging that players absolutely must make the mechanically optimal choices in character creation, and play those characters to the hilt in game, in order to survive.  I realize this style of play probably doesn't appeal to most but I for one enjoy the challenge both as a player and as a DM.  In my current game the players have suffered over 20 deaths combined just getting to level 3.  Every time one of the players discovers something extremely powerful, either an item or a character option or whatever, the party rejoices because they are long past trying to compete with each other to see who can slaughter the most goblins.  They are just trying to survive at this point and anyone who can figure out a way to increase the odds of survival for the party by increasing their own character's power is much appreciated.  It's an interesting experiment--instead of the norm, it's now the players that make sub-optimal choices, either in character creation or in character action in game, that get tsk'd at.</p></blockquote><p></p>