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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chainsaw Mage" data-source="post: 3607720" data-attributes="member: 16679">I thought you might find this interesting.  It's a post from rec.games.frp.dnd from way back in 2003.  When I read your thread title, I remembered reading this post.*******posted on rec.games.frp.dnd in October, 2003:I CAME, I SAW...I WENT BACK First of all, put away your flamethrowers.  I'm not trolling, nor do I intend to offend anyone's RPG sensibilities.  But I've come to a recent gaming epiphany, and I figure if we can discuss motion picture lawsuits and halfling anal sex on this group, then surely life-changing realizations are appropriate. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":-)" title="Smile    :-)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":-)" /> My epiphany is simply this: I'm leaving D&D 3/3.5 and taking up 2e in its place. This was not an easy decision and it certainly has nothing to do with any perceptions I have of which system is "better".  Let me go on the record as saying that D&D 3.0 and 3.5 are superb games in every way. But I've realized that they aren't for me, and as someone who first played D&D Basic in 1980, I feel great comfort and relief in welcoming 2e as my RPG system standard. Here's why: 1. I've realized that the 2e class restrictions make a certain amount of sense.  The thought of a multi-classed Paladin/Sorcerer/Monk/Fighter is a bit silly, as does the idea of Dwarven Wizards or Halfling Paladins.  The notion that some class concepts are simply alien to some races and the notion that some combinations simply make no sense works for me.  YMMV. ;-) 2. The more I've studied the 3/3.5 combat system the more troubled I've been by the extent to which the system seems designed to encourage the purchase of miniatures, which are conveniently now being marketed by WotC.  I'd hate to think that the design of game mechanics was driven by marketing considerations but it seems to be the case. And do we really need a hardcover "Miniatures Handbook"? I suppose I want to get off the marketing bandwagon.  It reminds me of the contrast between Saturday morning cartoons when I was a kid and cartoons were imaginative and creative with no product line attached (Bugs Bunny/Road Runner Show, sob, sniff) and nowadays, when cartoons are essentially 30-minute toy commercials. 3. On the subject of the combat system, 3.0/3.5 seems heavily geared to a level of detail that risks turning what should be a role-playing game into a tactical combat game or, even worse, a board game ("My paladin can move 30 feet and attack. That's six squares. 1,2,3,4,5,6. There we go! Attack!").  The 2e combat system, with its 1-minute rounds, encourages a greater degree of imagination and invention due to its more abstract nature.  This is obviously a personal preference, and I realize many D&D'ers like the 3/3.5 combat system precisely *because* of its level of tactical detail and wargame-like simulation. 4. Too many unnecessary rules.  Studying the skill section of the 3/3.5 PHB one is bombarded with a dizzying array of DC's.  Very little is left to DM fiat.  Again, many folks *prefer* 3/3.5 because of its extensive rules for every conceivable situation.  I've realized, however, that I prefer 2e because it gives much more control to the DM and the players (except for players who happen to be rules lawyers, of course.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":-)" title="Smile    :-)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":-)" /> . 5. The comment has been made before that 3/3.5 is like a video game or, conversely, that it is like Magic: the Gathering.  I've come to a similar conclusion.  The design of the game seems to encourage powergaming, min/maxing.  I remember the "Why be a ranger when you can be a fighter?" or "Bards are wimps! Why play them?" threads. The answer to those questions should be self-evident: "Some people like to *role* play. *That* is the reason to pick one class over another." But 3/3.5 doesn't seem to be about role-playing as much as about designing and building a powerful character; which is precisely what video game "RPGs" are about.  Which is precisely what Magic: the Gathering is about.  Rather than call it a role-playing game, perhaps WotC should call 3/3.5 a "Tactical Combat and Power Character Building Game". 6. One reason I like 2e is the same reason many hate it: its varied mechanics.  I suppose the best analogy is to that lovable old car with all its quirks and pings and knocks, the kind of car they "just don't make anymore", the car that you can't bear to part with.  Sure, I know the d20 mechanic is slick and consistent.  But it's a slickness that reminds me of the automobiles of today: All form, all bubble-shaped, all identical.  Give me my inconsistent variable 2e mechanics, please! I *like* rolling low on a d10 for initiative, then rolling high on a d20 for attacks! Give me more.  This is one thing that 2e has that 3/3.5 simply lacks: character.  Personality. 7. The gaming community.  2ers are, for the most part, an older crowd, more experienced with RPGs, less concerned with eagerly running down to the store every month and plopping down their cash for the latest product that WotC has told them to buy.  3/3.5 seems to attract younger gamers and those who enjoy power gaming and, dare I say it, munchkinism. 8.  3/3.5 suffers from what I call the "Factory Magic Syndrome".  The mystery of magic is gone, the elusiveness of magic items is a thing of the past.  Spell selection especially is far too mechanical.  Instead of the 2e, "Here you are, young apprentice, a spellbook with three spells I have chosen for you, now [cough], go forth and [cough] avenge my death..." We have the Wal*Mart approach: "For my 1st level Wizard, I will choose the following spells..." Again, it seems geared to character-building rather than role-playing. 9. A full-scale revision three years after 3.0? Sorry, I just can't go along with it. Do any of you honestly believe 4.0 is far away? I predict a full fourth edition will hit the shelves by 2006.  And why not? All the 3.5 loyalists will no doubt run out and buy it. *** I know 2e is far from perfect. I know it has its warts.  But I've realized that I like those warts.  It's that lovable old jacket that your wife wants you to throw out.  But damn it, it has more character and personality than a hundred Wal*Mart ski jackets.  And it keeps you warm even better than they can. I suppose I'm getting off the WotC marketing roller-coaster and settling back with the second version of a game I grew up loving...and will love again. Now get out there, all of you, and buy those collectible minis! That's a good consumer!    >;-) Food Vat Worker [citizen 3981032] ***direct flames to: foodvatwor...@canoemail.com YOUR HARD WORK WILL BE REWARDED.</blockquote>

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