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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 3609892" data-attributes="member: 48965">So...you're saying C&C is broken straight out the box?  I guess we'll have to disagree on that one.  The SIEGE mechanic works fine without "needing" to be houseruled.  Now if you want your particular game to abide by different rules, that suit you, well then that's a different story.  As far as a game you have no "desire" to houserule...well isn't that just a particular opinion as far as what you like?  I think alot of people would disagree with what you personally desire being the epitome of game design...but, to each his own.So you agree that C&C is just as flexible as any other game when it comes to this.  Great.Isn't this true of anything in any roleplaying game?  Agaiin you cite your opinion on the multi-class rules, how does this in any way tie into the flexibility argument.  Some people say the same thing about PrC's in D&D...that doesn't invalidate the fact that they make the game more flexible.Again, that's anything in an rpg.  So being able to choose skills that lie outside your Primes and class abilities, makes your choices narrower...<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" /> I thought it helped facilitate creating and differentiating the character you want to play.  Silly me...I guess.Again...nevermind I've repeated it enough times already.  Do new classes add flexibility or not?  They do, plain and simple.  Class systems are inherently less flexible than point systems...I mean if you want to get down to the end point...just play a totally free form game, now that's flexibility.  My argument was never that C&C was more flexible than A or B, but to say it isn't flexible is disingenuous....see my above argument.Yeah, it is...you can get the C&C PHB off amazon for $13.57...M&M=$26.37 & Spirit of the Century=(not available on amazon)$30.  So, Yeah it is at least 50% cheaper.I'll give you Fate...but what about printing, binding etc.Once again I never argued about the creativity of other games, I was talking about your argument that C&C is not flexible.  Reread my post.No, but, exactly like  I said your paying for them right. Or, if not, creating them yourself...just like you could do for C&CWe agree... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />Uhm, no...I think a fair measure is how easily or not options can be added or taken away from a game.  By your logic Point Buy systems are the end all and be all of game design.  The fact that D&D is the most popular game kind of squashes that notion.Again, where do I talk about "comparative" flexibility...I didn't even comment on other games vs. C&C.  You like what you like...point buys.  But comparing point buys to class based systems is apples and oranges...each one's design goals are different.  However a class based system can have flexibility, it may not be what you personally like, but that doesn't change the fact that it's there. And this is exactly what every rpg is.  You just gotta be willing to take it there.</blockquote>

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