Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Rocket your D&D 5E and Level Up: Advanced 5E games into space! Alpha Star Magazine Is Launching... Right Now!

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 3610523" data-attributes="member: 48965">So you don't like it's "genre conventons" and use this as a basis for it "needing" houserules...IMHO this is like saying I bought Star Wars and it needs house rules, because I'm not a fan of space fantasy, pulpy swashbuckling adventure...???Well it is Castles and Crusades...not AD&D 2e, those worlds, including Ravenloft, were made specifically for the AD&D rules set, so anything else will definitely require some conversion...the question is how much/and how close will it be to the original feel?  I think C&C probably is one of the lowest if not the lowest of almost any d20 variant for AD&D conversion, especially if you own the original material.  The funny thing is each of these settings put their own spin on AD&D rules, so you could technically claim that AD&D "out of the box" doesn't do them either.Well I see enogh threads about removing AoO to say that at least a small portion of gamers might be removing them(as well as acompanying feats, etc.).  However it's still in the hands of the GM and players.Yeah, it's the Class Options & Skills download on the troll site, and also includes Multi-classing and Dual-classing rules written by Gary Gygax.  The skills are broken down into 3 categories...General Skills, Prime Skills, and Non-prime Skills, which determine their XP point cost to buy.  It allows for specializaton( if you want to be better at specific things within your primes), broadening( If you want to be better at specific things outside your primes), and allows a tweaking of the archetypes to fit more in line wth your concept.This is an inflexible GM, not a flexibility problem with the game.  It's an argument that can be used for any class-based system with supplements to expand options.Castles & Crusades: Very AD&Dish system, but upgraded with some more sensible design choices (roll high on d20, class tweaks and a basic skill system). Fast. Not flexible. Conversion from 2e is almost automatic.This is what I was responding to...It isn't comparing anything, it's a blanket statement.  Now you've clarified that you we're comparing it to the other systems in your post, but you never stated that  originally.  What exactly is it that you can't do, conducive to it's genre, with a simple check in C&C.  It's a universal mechanic and works the same way each time.  Is it granularity that you're talking about?  If so I could see that, but as far as it not being flexible enough to accomodate it's genre I don't see it, and I've already listed options to increase granularity in the game...for those who want it.No, but it does argue the fact that there is at least a moderate size of the gaming population that finds the advantages/flaws of class-based systems are more in line with what they want out of a play experience than the advantages/flaws of a purely point-based game.  Thus naming point based systems as the epitome of game design, is a purely subjective claim. Again subjective,  but I think it still beats SWS as far as houseruling and being able to determine what most of the effects of your houserule will be.  Castles and Crusades has less "rules density"(variables, special cases, intricacies, rule mastery, etc) than most games, and that IMHO is what makes it easier to houserule. YMMV of courseI agree, but I don't think the discussion is relevant if you're comparing a point-based system to a class-based system, they have differing design goals and their "flexibility" has to be examined within the context of the differing objectives.  Otherwise it's like saying OJ is sweeter than grapefruit juice.  This is definitely true, but for comparison purposes, if the person is trying to get the sweetest brand of grapefruit juice it's pointless.  The OP was looking for something to emulate AD&D so that he could run the settings with as little work as possible, I don't think either M&M or SotC with all their "flexibility" will be simpler to use than C&C.  So for his purposes C&C is the most flexible choice.So once again your problem is with it's genre..."D&Dish high/epic fantasy".  I actually think high/epic fantasy is more suited to stricter archetypes as classes.  It reinforces the feel, and with multi-classing rules you can cover most character concepts that are common of that genre.1.) I don't think it's as clear cut as you make it seem.  C&C is lower in granularity, but not sure about flexibility.  You choose primes and they make you good at a wide range of "skills"(that's a pretty flexible fighter as opposed to a D&D fighter who will have maybe 2 to 3 skills.), you're good at everything your class is suppose to be good at (no rules mastery necessary, no available feat necessary) and you can introduce skills to differentiate more granular abilities if you want.I'm not certain we're talking about flexibility here, I'll give an example...In D&D a Bastard sword is an "exotic weapon" and  my fighter must have a feat to use it proficiently in one hand.  While in C&C my fighter can do this without the need for a feat, if I want him to.  Which option allows for more flexibility...What about if I don't have a feat available?2.) Yeah, yeah "out of the box" but rules for it are available in supplements and for free so it's kind of moot.3.) I agree, though this is suppose to be covered in the Castle Keepers Guide...I have to concede for now on this point. Yes some systems will be closer to what you want, and easier to mold into it than others.  My point though was that all your arguments seem to be that unless it's in the core rulebooks, it's not part of the game...and that's just not how rpg's have worked, at least not in my experience.  The game is what I want it to be, buying a system that's more in line with my desires helps me achieve this, that's why I buy or play certain systems, but the rules themselves don't limit what becomes part of my game...only I do that.</blockquote>

Verification