Immobility and powers that shift

[SteveC]

This is a a "did I do it right" question.

In running last session, the group came across the dreaded Gelatinous Cube. As a part of this, one member of the group was engulfed, which immobilized him. The Warlord in the group used "wolfpack tactics" to give the engulfed character a free shift, which would have allowed him to escape the cube.

I thought about it for a minute, and then looked up Immobilized, which states that you can move while you're affected by it, but you can be pushed, pulled or slid. My ruling was that because shift was normally a move action, he couldn't use it while Immobilized.

The group proceeded to crush the cube and everyone ended up okay, so there was no character death on the line.

So was I right or wrong, and how would you have handled it?

--Steve

 

[fissionessence]

I would have ruled it the same way. Also, depending on the nature of the push, pull or slide, I might not even have allowed that.

For example, some 'pushes' represent the target of the power running in fear . . . I probably wouldn't let that happen if the target was stuck in a gelatinous cube or enraveled in roots tying him to the ground.

~

 

[Hypersmurf]

I thought about it for a minute, and then looked up Immobilized, which states that you can move while you're affected by it, but you can be pushed, pulled or slid. My ruling was that because shift was normally a move action, he couldn't use it while Immobilized.

Right.

A shift is "I move". A slide is "You move me".

When I'm immobilised, I can't move (shift), but I can be moved (slide).

If the warlord had a "Slide one creature" power, it could be used to free his ally from the cube. But an "Ally may shift" power is no good.

-Hyp.

 

[Syrsuro]

You ruled correctly.
By the RAW, Immobilize only allows forced movement (pull, push, slide). A shift is not forced movement and thus although they are 'allowed' a shift by the power, they cannot take advantage of that because they are immobilized.
If the player had used a power that slid the engulfed player it would have worked.There are other powers that specify a pull, push or shift that, to me, should ALSO not allow movement in that case but which, by the RAW, do allow movement (example, the post-errata version of Come and Get It).
I am tempted to HR that those would not work in that case as well, but by the RAW they do.(Actually, I am tempted to rule some form of check to see whether the immobilize or the forced movement wins in such cases but I'm not sure its worth it as a house rule.)

Carl

 

[Hypersmurf]

There are other powers that specify a pull, push or shift that, to me, should ALSO not allow movement in that case but which, by the RAW, do allow movement (example, the post-errata version of Come and Get It).

Heh. I hadn't noticed the errata for that one - so you can now taunt the prone, paralyzed goblin into rolling across the floor beside you

-Hyp.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Heh. I hadn't noticed the errata for that one - so you can now taunt the prone, paralyzed goblin into rolling across the floor beside you

-Hyp.

Most of these sorts of situations can be imagined as something other than a taunt causing the effect: does own the battlefield really represent the foes moving about? In my mind it's more a case of the miniatures being at least partially abstract. In both cases I imagine that the effect of the power can be described in multiple ways: the foes have been moving as the user desires for the past few rounds, the user of the power moving himself and allies instead of the foes ("I'll come and get you" instead of "Come and get it"), or the foes voluntarily moving in response to stimulus.

Naturally such stuff is very dependant on the character doing it: I could easily imagine a staff-wielding warlorld who describes all his attacks as arcane doings, or a warrior wielding a sword made of the power of his mind who uses telekinesis to shove foes around as he wishes.

Oh, and Steve: You did right. The situation you describe is why the fighter power "get over here" is actually useful.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Most of these sorts of situations can be imagined as something other than a taunt causing the effect...

Oh, I agree completely - I gave half a dozen examples of 'altenative cinematics' for Come and Get It when the "It's a Martial Charm spell!" crew were first complaining about it.

-Hyp.