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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EarthSeraphEdna" data-source="post: 4144099" data-attributes="member: 49309">What about immortals with no real "race" (not necessarily subtype), so to speak? All of the angels in the Epic Bestiary and all of the demon lords have no real "race", so how is their size determined? What makes a malakim Huge, and what makes a kyriotates Gargantuan, for example? When making an immortal with 100 outsider HD, no class levels, and no predetermined race (like a generic really big deity), for instance, can you just declare him to be Titanic size like Surtur?Once again, what about immortals with no real "race"?That still doesn't answer my question of whether they count as "bipeds" or "quadrupeds" for space, reach, carrying capacity, base land speed, and such. An immortal's fly speed with Abnormality (wings) is equal to triple his base land speed, and an immortal's base land speed is different depending on whether he counts as a "biped" or a "quadruped", so it might come up when determining the fly speed of a perfectly cubical or spherical immortal. It's also going to come up when you have to determine how much of a burden a perfectly cubical or spherical immortal with X Strength can bear, and how much space/reach said immortal would have.True, but not all natural attacks do the same damage. Claws, for example, are one damage dice step up from slams. There need to be some secondary benefits to balance things out, like how Abnormality (Legs) multiplies your land speed and how Abnormality (Wings) multiplies your fly speed, but it might be hard to figure out the secondary benefits for every single kind of natural attack.I notice that the bite doesn't require an Abnormality. So when making a monstrous immortal, you can just declare that it has sharp teeth and get a free bite attack?</blockquote>

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