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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Eldorian" data-source="post: 770393" data-attributes="member: 10504">But, as UK said, ability scores go both ways.  As for prestige classes, most people consider the red wizard and the arcmage to be overpowered, at least that's what the thread over in Rules forum concluded.  They had good arguements, with several instances of playtesting.  It was mostly spell power ability that made them overpowered. While I'll admit that with the current system, and the cloak of resistance being the only source of saves, other than abilities which go both ways, the cloak is the only way you survive.  But it's not the spell DCs that the cloak protects you against, at least, not in the games I've played in.  It's more likely that it's supernatural abilites that have the harder saves, like gaze, frightful presence, and breath weapons.  I advocate a simply doubling of cloak price, and the inclusion of other magic items that boost saves, similiar to how AC has deflection, natural, and enhancement bonuses.  If magic spells had a single item that boosted their save DCs, that cost twice as much as the weapon enhancements, and saves had 3 items that increased save DCs, which cost twice as much as AC items, then the system would be more balanced.  As is, it's rather hard to get a spell off that allows a save for negation at higher levels, without a PrC or heavy investing into greater spell penetration.  For example, my epic level 23 cleric, with a 32 wisdom, had a success rate on spells with saves of about 1 in 8 tonight.  That wisdom is with a +5 inherint bonus, a +6 inhancement bonus, starting value of 18, and 3 points from leveling.  The other 2 went to Cha, for turning (planar turning is AWESOME =).Btw, epic was pretty fun.  First time tonight.I dunno... my epic level cleric only lost a spell to SR only about one in two chances, as he had a roughly 50% chance to succeed, but he lost to saves about 7 in 8, cause he had basically a 1 in 8 chance to succeed.  And the SR doesn't help at all against any supernatural attacks, which I keep repeating and repeating..  Don't you people fight things with supernatural attacks?  Our party all had spell resistance from the spell of the same name (or from being a monk, for one guy), but it only came into play 3 times (succeeding once), however we made many saves against supernatural attacks, and trample attempts, etc.  This is typical of our game, we hardly ever fight enemy spell casters, and very often fight monsters with supernatural attacks. Oh, and Anubis?  Adapts are pretty powerful little guys, I know.  Some cleric casting, some wizard casting.  I was thinking of playing an adapt with levels in the PrC Hexer, from masters of the wild.  Only problem is that his max spell level is only 6, and at epic levels, that makes you not much of a spell caster.Now, I'll admit that the save feats are pretty weak, but as Ea suggested, I believe it is because of the cheapness of the cloak.  However, that said, I believe that dodge is perhaps the weakest combat feat.  However, many people have it for mobility and spring attack (and whirlwind).  Perhaps if they were made into decent gateway feats, they would work fine as is.More later, it's late.  I'm only posting because I'm still coming down from the high that is gaming.Eldorian Antar</blockquote>

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