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<blockquote data-quote="Anubis" data-source="post: 771343" data-attributes="member: 2358">First off, I rated the party at a flat Level 12, as I am going by the core rules for CR and that for the moment, simply changing the CRs of things instead of changing the system.&nbsp; Second, I rated Adepts at 1/3, so I considered them CR 6 each.&nbsp; Even at CR 10, however, the EL should have only been 15, meaning you are right, *by those numbers*, it should have been close to a 50/50 battle.&nbsp; Like I said, that's not the result.As for the Wizard, she is not a splat mage with all the damage spells, she's a utility/instant kill type.&nbsp; There are no clerics (the party is Vashar) and no splat mages.By your system, however, a party consisting of four copies of the Vampire character should have had almost a 50/50 chance if not an even better chance, and I know for a fact that Vampire was unable to do ANYTHING.&nbsp; With Stomeskin, that decrease the hit damage by 10.&nbsp; Also, with Polymorph Self, the Adepts became Fire Giants and they all had +1 weaponry.&nbsp; The Vampires would have been defeated very quickly.You can't COUNT on having access to splat spells and the such.&nbsp; That's not part of the CR equation, after all.&nbsp; The Wizard's tactics were not at fault in the least!&nbsp; I'm sure most everybody would agree with me that not all Wizards are fireball-toting splatfests of exploding fun.&nbsp; This one happens to be primarily a Necromancer, in fact.&nbsp; Thus, the party had no decent access to any major damage spells.Yet your numbers suggest they still should have had a 50/50 chance.&nbsp; I say that's not the case.&nbsp; In fact, I would dare to say that Adepts might be something closer to Level*3/4 that Level*1/2 or Level*1/3.&nbsp; In fact, I would say Adepts are stronger than Warriors and are the strongest NPC class!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Anubis, post: 771343, member: 2358"] First off, I rated the party at a flat Level 12, as I am going by the core rules for CR and that for the moment, simply changing the CRs of things instead of changing the system. Second, I rated Adepts at 1/3, so I considered them CR 6 each. Even at CR 10, however, the EL should have only been 15, meaning you are right, *by those numbers*, it should have been close to a 50/50 battle. Like I said, that's not the result. As for the Wizard, she is not a splat mage with all the damage spells, she's a utility/instant kill type. There are no clerics (the party is Vashar) and no splat mages. By your system, however, a party consisting of four copies of the Vampire character should have had almost a 50/50 chance if not an even better chance, and I know for a fact that Vampire was unable to do ANYTHING. With Stomeskin, that decrease the hit damage by 10. Also, with Polymorph Self, the Adepts became Fire Giants and they all had +1 weaponry. The Vampires would have been defeated very quickly. You can't COUNT on having access to splat spells and the such. That's not part of the CR equation, after all. The Wizard's tactics were not at fault in the least! I'm sure most everybody would agree with me that not all Wizards are fireball-toting splatfests of exploding fun. This one happens to be primarily a Necromancer, in fact. Thus, the party had no decent access to any major damage spells. Yet your numbers suggest they still should have had a 50/50 chance. I say that's not the case. In fact, I would dare to say that Adepts might be something closer to Level*3/4 that Level*1/2 or Level*1/3. In fact, I would say Adepts are stronger than Warriors and are the strongest NPC class! [/QUOTE]

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