Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Immortal's Handbook continuation thread continuation
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Upper_Krust" data-source="post: 787710" data-attributes="member: 326"><p>Hi Anubis mate! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>True indeed, and that is one option.</p><p></p><p>However, that doesn't address the one issue I still have a problem with.</p><p></p><p>Namely that by not factoring Ability Scores for characters but factoring them for monsters creates a flawed dichotomy in the mechanic. The results of which are that all the monster CRs are (approx.) 15% wrong.</p><p></p><p>The alternative is to not factor Ability Scores at all which just seems somehow 'wrong'. I mean say two deities each decide to create a servitor using the CR factors. Both players end up with a monster equal to a Pit Fiend except one has all 40s to ability scores and the other has all 20s, yet they both somehow have the same CR and cost the same amount of worsip points to create ~ it doesn't seem right to me.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It has been explained indirectly.</p><p></p><p>If you remember the CR/EL relationship table, every doubling of CR represents an EL increase of +4.</p><p></p><p>Therefore halving the CR represents a decrease of +4 EL.</p><p></p><p>A difference of +4 EL represents the difference between a moderate encounter (where the party should soundly win using 20-25% of its resources) and a difficult one (which is a 50/50 encounter).</p><p></p><p>I use the terminology to focus peoples attentions on the fact that at their actual CRs monsters are not meant to represent significant threats - but at the difficult rating they are.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>Possibly.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>I anticipate that characters would approximately gain +1 CR (for Ability Scores) with an additional +1 CR for every 10 levels (counting inherant bonuses and eventually epic feats).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree. The lower rated Pit Fiend is far more accurate provided we are not factoring ability scores for PCs.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>You summed it up exactly! </p><p></p><p>It <strong>should</strong>. </p><p></p><p>But do we risk months of work on a hunch without testing it as best we can...? No, of course not. Thats why we are here.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>It will almost certainly still work either way (my CR/EL relationship creates a very robust mechanic). </p><p></p><p>The problem is that one way (not counting Ability Scores) monster CRs just looks wrong.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The modifiers still work at low levels, but what they don't factor the fragility of very low level characters who are much more dependant on luck than relatively higher level characters.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Don't worry about the Divinity Templates they are perfect now. Though I have made a few changes recently like taking out the Inherant Bonuses to Ability Scores...though a deity can still gain them if they so wish - pun intended. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Certainly on the surface yes I agree with you. But I am just wary of ignoring such bonuses.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Upper_Krust, post: 787710, member: 326"] Hi Anubis mate! :) True indeed, and that is one option. However, that doesn't address the one issue I still have a problem with. Namely that by not factoring Ability Scores for characters but factoring them for monsters creates a flawed dichotomy in the mechanic. The results of which are that all the monster CRs are (approx.) 15% wrong. The alternative is to not factor Ability Scores at all which just seems somehow 'wrong'. I mean say two deities each decide to create a servitor using the CR factors. Both players end up with a monster equal to a Pit Fiend except one has all 40s to ability scores and the other has all 20s, yet they both somehow have the same CR and cost the same amount of worsip points to create ~ it doesn't seem right to me. It has been explained indirectly. If you remember the CR/EL relationship table, every doubling of CR represents an EL increase of +4. Therefore halving the CR represents a decrease of +4 EL. A difference of +4 EL represents the difference between a moderate encounter (where the party should soundly win using 20-25% of its resources) and a difficult one (which is a 50/50 encounter). I use the terminology to focus peoples attentions on the fact that at their actual CRs monsters are not meant to represent significant threats - but at the difficult rating they are. Possibly. I anticipate that characters would approximately gain +1 CR (for Ability Scores) with an additional +1 CR for every 10 levels (counting inherant bonuses and eventually epic feats). I agree. The lower rated Pit Fiend is far more accurate provided we are not factoring ability scores for PCs. You summed it up exactly! It [b]should[/b]. But do we risk months of work on a hunch without testing it as best we can...? No, of course not. Thats why we are here. It will almost certainly still work either way (my CR/EL relationship creates a very robust mechanic). The problem is that one way (not counting Ability Scores) monster CRs just looks wrong. The modifiers still work at low levels, but what they don't factor the fragility of very low level characters who are much more dependant on luck than relatively higher level characters. Don't worry about the Divinity Templates they are perfect now. Though I have made a few changes recently like taking out the Inherant Bonuses to Ability Scores...though a deity can still gain them if they so wish - pun intended. ;) Certainly on the surface yes I agree with you. But I am just wary of ignoring such bonuses. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Immortal's Handbook continuation thread continuation
Top