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<blockquote data-quote="Anubis" data-source="post: 787826" data-attributes="member: 2358">Well, if you count racial ability score modifiers, if those PCs are playing monster classes, those racial modifiers would indeed be counted for the PCs.&nbsp; That's part of the ECL actually, if you equate CR and ECL as it should be.Again, this is solved by factoring in racial ability scores modifiers in CR and ECL.&nbsp; PCs get hit by racial ability score modifiers as well.&nbsp; The thing is, most PCs won't have racial ability score modifiers unless they play monsters.I still disagree with this part of the system as well, but I wanna take care of the ability score thing before hitting on that.Well, spell-like abilities still need work (as you still overrate them terribly), and the relationship between CR and EL needs to be addressed (I pointed out how it breaks down at the extreme high levels due to your underestimating levels quickly by lowering their worth too quickly, and I showed how you could fix that).I simply don't believe CR*2 = EL+4.&nbsp; There is pretty much no evidence to really support this.&nbsp; I still advocate the following table:[code][COLOR=red]CR - EL=============1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 53&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 74&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 85&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 96&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 107&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 118&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 129&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1310&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1411&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1512-13&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1614-15&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1716-17&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1818-19&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1920-21&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2022-40&nbsp; &nbsp; +1/241-80&nbsp; &nbsp; +1/481-160&nbsp;&nbsp; +1/8ETC ETC ETC[/COLOR][/code]If nothing else, this table has more accuracy and is MUCH simpler to use.&nbsp; Basically, there is no formula relating CR to EL until after Level 20, at which time it is CR*2 = EL+10.&nbsp; I think this is more accurate than CR*2 = EL+4, and this is easy to see at the extreme high levels.&nbsp; Yeah, I'm talking like Level 1000+ here.Hey, YOU'RE the one who wants a system that works at ALL levels.&nbsp; This is how you do it, seriously.&nbsp; Yes, the core system overestimated levels, but you are underestimating the extreme high levels.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Anubis, post: 787826, member: 2358"] Well, if you count racial ability score modifiers, if those PCs are playing monster classes, those racial modifiers would indeed be counted for the PCs. That's part of the ECL actually, if you equate CR and ECL as it should be. Again, this is solved by factoring in racial ability scores modifiers in CR and ECL. PCs get hit by racial ability score modifiers as well. The thing is, most PCs won't have racial ability score modifiers unless they play monsters. I still disagree with this part of the system as well, but I wanna take care of the ability score thing before hitting on that. Well, spell-like abilities still need work (as you still overrate them terribly), and the relationship between CR and EL needs to be addressed (I pointed out how it breaks down at the extreme high levels due to your underestimating levels quickly by lowering their worth too quickly, and I showed how you could fix that). I simply don't believe CR*2 = EL+4. There is pretty much no evidence to really support this. I still advocate the following table: [code][COLOR=red] CR - EL ============= 1 1 2 5 3 7 4 8 5 9 6 10 7 11 8 12 9 13 10 14 11 15 12-13 16 14-15 17 16-17 18 18-19 19 20-21 20 22-40 +1/2 41-80 +1/4 81-160 +1/8 ETC ETC ETC [/COLOR][/code] If nothing else, this table has more accuracy and is MUCH simpler to use. Basically, there is no formula relating CR to EL until after Level 20, at which time it is CR*2 = EL+10. I think this is more accurate than CR*2 = EL+4, and this is easy to see at the extreme high levels. Yeah, I'm talking like Level 1000+ here. Hey, YOU'RE the one who wants a system that works at ALL levels. This is how you do it, seriously. Yes, the core system overestimated levels, but you are underestimating the extreme high levels. [/QUOTE]

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