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Immortal's Handbook continuation thread
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<blockquote data-quote="Anubis" data-source="post: 692382" data-attributes="member: 2358"><p>I think that can be called overcompensation. For a +6 ability to be able to kill even atropals automatically with a 65% success rate is a tad much.</p><p></p><p>Actually, uh . . . I need to change my stance here . . . I read up on the undead in both books and checked the abilities themselves (+2 and +6 respectively), and decided that both are perfectly fine as-is.</p><p></p><p>You see, undead have crappy Fortitude saves. Even Nightcrawlers have only a +8, and Disruption is a +2 ability. Greater Disruption is a +6 ability. The best undead has a +22 save and is CR 50, and I think that something designed to challenge Level 50 characters damn well should be able to survive such abilities.</p><p></p><p>So in conclusion, I see nothing unbalanced with both abilities as-is. Both have reasonable saves and conditions, so . . .</p><p></p><p>Perhaps you should make a +10 version called Ultimate Disruption that is DC 33?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Not always. For something as powerful as Vorpal is supposed to be, it SHOULD be a bit complex. It's not overly complex, after all. Double all final damage, threats are automatically criticals unless the victim is immune, and anything with a Constitution score is a threat of an instant kill on a natural 20. What's so complex about that?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" /> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" /> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" /> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" /> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" /> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" /> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" /> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" /> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" /> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" /> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" /> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" /> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" /> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" /> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" /> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" /> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" /> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" /> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" /> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" /> </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Okay, how about you make up a new +1250 ability right here and now that is equally as powerful as the other and let us see it? That way the ability in the book is still a surprise, but we get a general idea of how powerful it is?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Hate to do it (because I've been one of the people who thinks odd scores are useless), but I can help you here.</p><p></p><p>Strength changes carrying capacity.</p><p></p><p>Constitution, if you use my (much better than the core rules') death system of not dying until negative amount equal to Level plus Constitution, lets you go longer without dying.</p><p></p><p>Intelligence determines the maximum spell level for Intelligence-based spellcasting.</p><p></p><p>Wisdom determines the maximum spell level for Wisdom-based spellcasting.</p><p></p><p>Charisma determines the maximum spell level for Charisma-based spellcasting.</p><p></p><p>The only score that doesn't have any effect by the score itself is Dexterity, but that score is a prerequisite for some of the best feats and feat chains in the game, such as the Whirlwind Attack chain, Ambidexterity, etc.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Anubis, post: 692382, member: 2358"] I think that can be called overcompensation. For a +6 ability to be able to kill even atropals automatically with a 65% success rate is a tad much. Actually, uh . . . I need to change my stance here . . . I read up on the undead in both books and checked the abilities themselves (+2 and +6 respectively), and decided that both are perfectly fine as-is. You see, undead have crappy Fortitude saves. Even Nightcrawlers have only a +8, and Disruption is a +2 ability. Greater Disruption is a +6 ability. The best undead has a +22 save and is CR 50, and I think that something designed to challenge Level 50 characters damn well should be able to survive such abilities. So in conclusion, I see nothing unbalanced with both abilities as-is. Both have reasonable saves and conditions, so . . . Perhaps you should make a +10 version called Ultimate Disruption that is DC 33? Not always. For something as powerful as Vorpal is supposed to be, it SHOULD be a bit complex. It's not overly complex, after all. Double all final damage, threats are automatically criticals unless the victim is immune, and anything with a Constitution score is a threat of an instant kill on a natural 20. What's so complex about that? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: Okay, how about you make up a new +1250 ability right here and now that is equally as powerful as the other and let us see it? That way the ability in the book is still a surprise, but we get a general idea of how powerful it is? Hate to do it (because I've been one of the people who thinks odd scores are useless), but I can help you here. Strength changes carrying capacity. Constitution, if you use my (much better than the core rules') death system of not dying until negative amount equal to Level plus Constitution, lets you go longer without dying. Intelligence determines the maximum spell level for Intelligence-based spellcasting. Wisdom determines the maximum spell level for Wisdom-based spellcasting. Charisma determines the maximum spell level for Charisma-based spellcasting. The only score that doesn't have any effect by the score itself is Dexterity, but that score is a prerequisite for some of the best feats and feat chains in the game, such as the Whirlwind Attack chain, Ambidexterity, etc. [/QUOTE]
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